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LED lighting badly suppresses human melatonin production at night

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Re: LED lighting badly suppresses human melatonin production at night

#151

Post by throwaway290 »

sacnoradhq wrote: post #122
marcell wrote: post #79

There is always a time lag between the introduction of a cool new technology, and the discovery of its negative effects on human health. DDT was invented in the 1940's, and it wasn't until twenty years later that people discovered its negative effects through bioaccumulation. Teflon was invented in the 1930's, and it again took decades to discover its negative effects on human health, apparently under high heat. Ciga…

Artificial lighting has existed for hundreds, if not tens of thousands, of years. People used to breathe superfines and ultrafines from daily cooking fires in nearly indoor conditions. Hell, people living in cities next to highways have no idea how they're shortening their lives if they don't have extreme MERV air filtration like I do. The AQI inside right now hovers at ~5. Outside, it varies from 15 to 200. I've bee…

LED and incandescent bulbs are artificial lighting like m&ms and avocado are food. Any incandescent bulb gives black body full spectrum, turn it down to get friendly fire-like yellow, and most LED (even visibly white) give a very spiky spectrum plus you choose between PWM or high brightness.

Re: LED lighting badly suppresses human melatonin production at night

#152

Post by iforgotpassword »

karmaMeansCool wrote: post #15

There are also probably very personal and biological variables involved too that the post doesn't mention. I stare into monitors and phones all day long. Every light in the house is full-blown LED. I can't help but fall asleep at 20:00 in an led lit room watching led TVs, while my led phone drops onto the floor after I've fallen asleep. I've been in an extreme LED environment for over a decade and never have problems…

I'm also like this, very rarely do I have trouble falling asleep and usually it's because I can't stop thinking about something.

But I feel like it's really that I'm just that tired in the evenings, and feel like I always needed more sleep than the average person.

We'd need stats about the number of people reporting problems with falling asleep and quality of sleep over the decades I guess. This might very well just be something that manages to push people over the edge and thus makes a difference, just not for those of us who are at the more extreme ends of the spectrum.

Also even if it doesn't affect my sleep quality noticeably, I wonder about the cancer risk part; is that a direct result of worse sleep, or might that still affect me?

Re: LED lighting badly suppresses human melatonin production at night

#153

Post by xg15 »

sacnoradhq wrote: post #122
marcell wrote: post #79

There is always a time lag between the introduction of a cool new technology, and the discovery of its negative effects on human health. DDT was invented in the 1940's, and it wasn't until twenty years later that people discovered its negative effects through bioaccumulation. Teflon was invented in the 1930's, and it again took decades to discover its negative effects on human health, apparently under high heat. Ciga…

Artificial lighting has existed for hundreds, if not tens of thousands, of years. People used to breathe superfines and ultrafines from daily cooking fires in nearly indoor conditions. Hell, people living in cities next to highways have no idea how they're shortening their lives if they don't have extreme MERV air filtration like I do. The AQI inside right now hovers at ~5. Outside, it varies from 15 to 200. I've bee…

> Artificial lighting has existed for hundreds, if not tens of thousands, of years.

Yes, and the climate has always been changing too.

A large part of the post is about the exact reasons why this kind of artificial light is different.

Re: LED lighting badly suppresses human melatonin production at night

#154

Post by vidarh »

textbookrental wrote: post #86
jahsome wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've battled the opposite in the form of clinical, anxiety-driven insomnia my whole life. I've found it utterly debilitating at times and have quite literally struggled since birth, long before electronics and LEDs were common. I can confidently say you're so right about the number (and type) of variables. Sleep hygiene as we say in the biz is a very complex and personal issue. I've tried everything under the sun fro…

I've been a terrible sleeper for about a decade. Weeks on end where I am only sleeping a few hours a night. Can't fall asleep, can't stay asleep, just tired all the time. Tried all the sleep hygiene recommendations but made no difference. Started supplementing with creatine and about a month later had the best sleep of my adult life. Shortly after switching creatine brands, I noticed my restless legs were back and I…

I'd worry about what else is in the one that helps you sleep to cause there to be a difference.

Re: LED lighting badly suppresses human melatonin production at night

#155

Post by hanniabu »

reustle wrote: post #92
MrVandemar wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect that (some types of) plastics are going to be a big contributer to some of these problems. They contain a number of endocrine disrupting chemicals, and we're typing on them, mousing with them, steering our cars with them, walking on them (most carpet is plastic these days), wearing them, eating off them, drinking from them, washing outselves with them ... But yeah, the time-lag is a real problem, and couple…

For the first time in my life, I think I finally see the appeal of wooden keycaps.

Sealed with unknown resins

Re: LED lighting badly suppresses human melatonin production at night

#156

Post by steve1977 »

koverda wrote: post #107

Regarding the quoted e-book study: > Third, in the present study, the LE-eBook was set to maximum brightness throughout the 4-h reading session, whereas, by comparison, the print-book condition consisted of reflected exposure to very dim light. Yeah, max brightness is probably going to make an impact. I bet if you were in a room with a bright light reading a book, with an equivalent amount of lumens going into your e…

This. If I set my reading devices to maximum brightness, I can basically use them as flashlights.

Re: LED lighting badly suppresses human melatonin production at night

#157

Post by jackvalentine »

mixmastamyk wrote: post #140
jackvalentine wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the article, spectrum and colour temperature are related but not 1:1 matches to each other. A “2700K” light can apparently have quite a lot of blue in it still. > If you go to a hardware store, you’ll almost certainly see a demo of light color temperatures in the bulb aisle (typically around 2700K for “warm” light, around 5000K for “cool” light). You can get to those average light warmths a wide range of ways, t…

Then go with the Bedtime bulb, it is made specifically to reduce that. Creator is in the thread answering questions.

I think I’d prefer fittings that let me use commodity LED bulbs that cost 20% of a bedtime bulb. Also, I think the bedtime bulb is not available in 240v.

Re: LED lighting badly suppresses human melatonin production at night

#159

Post by hutzlibu »

UberFly wrote: post #135
koverda wrote: post #107

Regarding the quoted e-book study: > Third, in the present study, the LE-eBook was set to maximum brightness throughout the 4-h reading session, whereas, by comparison, the print-book condition consisted of reflected exposure to very dim light. Yeah, max brightness is probably going to make an impact. I bet if you were in a room with a bright light reading a book, with an equivalent amount of lumens going into your e…

Yes, thank you for being rational. "Yorg, turn down the campfire or we'll never get to sleep!"

Sleeping next to a bright fire though, is way more easy and cozy, than sleeping next to a bright LED flashlight.

The red light (and sound) of the fire has a very soothing effect, which has probably something to do that our ancestors slept next to it since ~1 mio years.

(it is still fun, just don't use a new sleeping bag, as it might get holes)

Re: LED lighting badly suppresses human melatonin production at night

#160

Post by rob74 »

UberFly wrote: post #135
koverda wrote: post #107

Regarding the quoted e-book study: > Third, in the present study, the LE-eBook was set to maximum brightness throughout the 4-h reading session, whereas, by comparison, the print-book condition consisted of reflected exposure to very dim light. Yeah, max brightness is probably going to make an impact. I bet if you were in a room with a bright light reading a book, with an equivalent amount of lumens going into your e…

Yes, thank you for being rational. "Yorg, turn down the campfire or we'll never get to sleep!"

I'm glad our ancestors were less worried about the quality of their sleep and more worried about what beasts might attack them during the night and using fire to keep them away, otherwise we may not be sitting here discussing how LED lighting impacts sleep quality...
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