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LED lighting badly suppresses human melatonin production at night

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Re: LED lighting badly suppresses human melatonin production at night

#91
post #82

The ebook reader part is a bit weird since the paper doesn't state which model they used. Many readers these days have warm LED lights. IIRC the Kindle Oasis can even adapt the temperature of the light.

Kobo readers have adjustable light temperature as well. I think their entire lineup, barring the one cheapest model, has that now.

https://help.kobo.com/hc/en-us/articles/360017481174-Adjust-...

Re: LED lighting badly suppresses human melatonin production at night

#92
post #79

There is always a time lag between the introduction of a cool new technology, and the discovery of its negative effects on human health. DDT was invented in the 1940's, and it wasn't until twenty years later that people discovered its negative effects through bioaccumulation. Teflon was invented in the 1930's, and it again took decades to discover its negative effects on human health, apparently under high heat. Ciga…

I suspect that (some types of) plastics are going to be a big contributer to some of these problems. They contain a number of endocrine disrupting chemicals, and we're typing on them, mousing with them, steering our cars with them, walking on them (most carpet is plastic these days), wearing them, eating off them, drinking from them, washing outselves with them ... But yeah, the time-lag is a real problem, and couple…

For the first time in my life, I think I finally see the appeal of wooden keycaps.

Re: LED lighting badly suppresses human melatonin production at night

#93
post #11

Andrew Huberman of Huberman Lab podcast discusses this in the first 4-5 episodes of the podcast. The takeaway is: it's late-night bright light, rather than blue light, that has effects on the circadian rhythm. It's an appeal to authority but I think I'll go with the professor of neurobiology and opthalmology on this one.

(Post author here, huh, it hit HN...) This is not consistent with the studies I've read. It's a "total lumineous flux in the 460-490nm range" concern. The deep reds, up past 600nm, don't seem to have any impact on melatonin, nor do violets below ~420nm - though they can have other impacts on the retina and such. Bright light will, all other things being equal, be worse than dim light, but "dim blue light" is still re…

Keyword to search is melanopic spectral efficiency.

Re: LED lighting badly suppresses human melatonin production at night

#94
post #11

Andrew Huberman of Huberman Lab podcast discusses this in the first 4-5 episodes of the podcast. The takeaway is: it's late-night bright light, rather than blue light, that has effects on the circadian rhythm. It's an appeal to authority but I think I'll go with the professor of neurobiology and opthalmology on this one.

(Post author here, huh, it hit HN...) This is not consistent with the studies I've read. It's a "total lumineous flux in the 460-490nm range" concern. The deep reds, up past 600nm, don't seem to have any impact on melatonin, nor do violets below ~420nm - though they can have other impacts on the retina and such. Bright light will, all other things being equal, be worse than dim light, but "dim blue light" is still re…

This is covered by Huberman. Our night vision is ~3x more sensitive to blue light than red, probably because starlight has more blue. Blue light is ~2.5 worse for keeping us up but would actually be better if turned it way down like the 3x implies we can.

At normal levels the 3x gets lost in the exponential to much light we get at night.

Re: LED lighting badly suppresses human melatonin production at night

#95
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(Post author here, huh, it hit HN...) This is not consistent with the studies I've read. It's a "total lumineous flux in the 460-490nm range" concern. The deep reds, up past 600nm, don't seem to have any impact on melatonin, nor do violets below ~420nm - though they can have other impacts on the retina and such. Bright light will, all other things being equal, be worse than dim light, but "dim blue light" is still re…

Ooh the post author! I have a question. When I buy light bulbs they always list the color temperature but not the lumineous flux, what's the relationship? I buy dim bulbs that have a temperature of 2700K for evening applications precisely because of this belief that brightness and color impacts sleep quality, am I right or is it just placebo? It seems to help...

Temperature describes a distribution of wavelengths. Higher is bluer, lower is yellower. Both brightness and color matters. If you want to be as safe as possible, buy pure red LEDs for use 1-2 hours before bed and don't expose yourself to any non-red light. The difference is (no pun intended) night and day.

Re: LED lighting badly suppresses human melatonin production at night

#96
post #21

There are also probably very personal and biological variables involved too that the post doesn't mention. I stare into monitors and phones all day long. Every light in the house is full-blown LED. I can't help but fall asleep at 20:00 in an led lit room watching led TVs, while my led phone drops onto the floor after I've fallen asleep. I've been in an extreme LED environment for over a decade and never have problems…

I've battled the opposite in the form of clinical, anxiety-driven insomnia my whole life. I've found it utterly debilitating at times and have quite literally struggled since birth, long before electronics and LEDs were common. I can confidently say you're so right about the number (and type) of variables. Sleep hygiene as we say in the biz is a very complex and personal issue. I've tried everything under the sun fro…

In defense of the layman people, they are not doctors, and they can't recommend prescription drugs.

And sometimes non-doctor solutions do help and complement official treatments.

I started mindfulness neditation a while ago and it did me wonders to help me sleep. At first by the act of meditating, and then by some byproducts on attention span and fleeting thoughts.

Re: LED lighting badly suppresses human melatonin production at night

#97
post #79

There is always a time lag between the introduction of a cool new technology, and the discovery of its negative effects on human health. DDT was invented in the 1940's, and it wasn't until twenty years later that people discovered its negative effects through bioaccumulation. Teflon was invented in the 1930's, and it again took decades to discover its negative effects on human health, apparently under high heat. Ciga…

General rule I keep is the more restrained on new tech you can be the better.

Basically, I avoid most synthetic, gmo, store bought stuff where I can. That said, I have AC, heat, and will use meds when I need them (even real advanced ones). There’s always risks but my cast iron works great to cook with. No synthetic hormones for me, and limit phone use is allgood.

Re: LED lighting badly suppresses human melatonin production at night

#98

Andrew Huberman of Huberman Lab podcast discusses this in the first 4-5 episodes of the podcast. The takeaway is: it's late-night bright light, rather than blue light, that has effects on the circadian rhythm. It's an appeal to authority but I think I'll go with the professor of neurobiology and opthalmology on this one.

He also did an interview with a person from the NIMH who personally only uses candle light past dark. It makes sense when you think about it. Also apparently overhead lights are worse- the angle makes a difference.

It makes more sense to use pure red LEDs if you check the melanopic spectral function, where you see red has practically no effect. It's also less likely to emit PM2.5, CO2, or start a house fire.

Re: LED lighting badly suppresses human melatonin production at night

#100
post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect that (some types of) plastics are going to be a big contributer to some of these problems. They contain a number of endocrine disrupting chemicals, and we're typing on them, mousing with them, steering our cars with them, walking on them (most carpet is plastic these days), wearing them, eating off them, drinking from them, washing outselves with them ... But yeah, the time-lag is a real problem, and couple…

For the first time in my life, I think I finally see the appeal of wooden keycaps.

Can finally justify that four figure keyboard build!
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