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Social media is a cause, not a correlate, of mental illness in teen girls

jonathanhaidt.substack.com

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Re: Social media is a cause, not a correlate, of mental illness in teen girls

#411

Post by ThalesX »

Spivak wrote: post #211
ThalesX wrote: post #99

My little sister just started high school and in less than a semester is unrecognizable. There is no more her in her day to day life, everything is curated to perfection. There are no more hobbies, no more interestes, no more curiosities, there is just "me". I was so confident in her ability to withstand the impact of social media, due to her education, but ultimately I was just shocked at how fast the change was. I…

I wouldn't worry about it too much. Every girl goes through that, they're called your formative years for a reason. The start of HS is basically a reset where you go from chasing whatever fancy catches your attention shamelessly-ish to consciously developing an identity filtered through the social pressures of wanting to fit in. It starts to wane around 17 when we start feeling confident enough to be ourselves, but o…

I like how people respond as if I haven't gone through high school, or am aware of the typical changes that are associated with that period, in boys and girls. I'm also not saying she's not going to be fine. I'm just shocked at the impact of social media on their experiences and have concluded that it's impossible to resist.

They'll all fall in the bell curve so of course they'll be alright, but they'll be alright in a way different world than the one in which we were alright.

Re: Social media is a cause, not a correlate, of mental illness in teen girls

#412

Post by gardenhedge »

AndrewKemendo wrote: post #219
warner25 wrote: post #2

I'm still reading it, but this is great so far. As a father to four little girls, though, it makes me feel really defeated. I can already see that social media has eroded my wife's mental health. I just don't know what to do in the next few years when our girls approach the age when everyone else will get an iPhone and have an Instagram account. I want to say no, but that leads to many other issues, including what th…

I had my 12 year old daughter read the article and after she argued a while I said: Ok, write up your rejoinder and I will post it and see what others think. For context we severely restrict access to social media in our house, but of course they find ways around this as expected (I don't pi-hole because I want them to learn to be hackers) ----------------------------------- *Why I think it’s reasonable for me to hav…

Reverse it and write "Why I think it is reasonable for me to NOT have social media"

Re: Social media is a cause, not a correlate, of mental illness in teen girls

#413

Post by kuahyeow »

gsatic wrote: post #326
AndrewKemendo wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had my 12 year old daughter read the article and after she argued a while I said: Ok, write up your rejoinder and I will post it and see what others think. For context we severely restrict access to social media in our house, but of course they find ways around this as expected (I don't pi-hole because I want them to learn to be hackers) ----------------------------------- *Why I think it’s reasonable for me to hav…

Asian parents wouldn't have this debate. Why? Any problem with a complexity level that has an answer - I don't know - gets to be thought about only after you have earned your black belt not before.

Haha, no - way to stereotype. If you follow that it just leads to non-independent children.

Re: Social media is a cause, not a correlate, of mental illness in teen girls

#414

Post by josephg »

giraffe_lady wrote: post #409
josephg wrote: post #399

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep. People seem to forget the pearl clutching in the 90s over boys playing violent video games. If the media was to be believed, video games were inevitably going to raise a generation of men ready to shoot up schools at the slightest provocation. Lots of research later, we started finding the men who grew up playing multiplayer video games were more strategic and often made better leaders. The fact that overwatch h…

uhhhhh I don't think the video games are the reason but boys shooting up schools did turn out to be a big problem you know. So, idk, they were probably worried about the wrong thing but it seems they were right to be worried about that outcome.

Sure - and as an Australian I find America’s tolerance for school shootings utterly baffling.

Here in Australia we play all the same video games as American kids do, and we don’t have school shootings. The problem isn’t the video games.

Re: Social media is a cause, not a correlate, of mental illness in teen girls

#415

Post by juve1996 »

aidenn0 wrote: post #350
Spivak wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Was that your intent? You effectively grounded her. Actually worse because if she was grounded she could still talk to her friends. Trying to equate all "technology" and confiscate it like it's an extra nonessential thing like video games or toys is a mistake a lot of parents seem to be making in an environment where most social activity happens online and where everything is planned. It's fine I guess if that's what…

It was not our intent; she is not our oldest and we were surprised how unmotivated she was to plan outings with friends without using the phone compared to others. A phone is clearly a non-essential thing since she was able to function the first 13 years of her life without one. We have rules around proper phone use and there was a violation that was both significant, and a repeat offense, so the phone went away for…

How else is she supposed to reach out to her friends if she can't use a phone?

Re: Social media is a cause, not a correlate, of mental illness in teen girls

#416

Post by PaulDavisThe1st »

faeriechangling wrote: post #183
Loughla wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know that's meant to be funny, but the Amish community is a nightmare, from the outside looking in, very closely. I live in an area where there is a large Amish community; they outnumber "English" about 4:1. Patriarchy in all decisions. The old men make choices for families based on what they know is best, and you follow that rule, regardless of your own views. Women are not allowed a voice in formal decisions. Chi…

The western model is built on patriarchy, they just continually import people from patriarchies to supply western work forces. Without patriarchy the western model would collapse because westerners aren't interested in creating a non-patriarchal model of society which might reduce their standards of living and force them to expend labour on things like childrearing. It's an out of sight, out of mind patriarchy. The a…

>The western model is built on patriarchy, they just continually import people from patriarchies to supply western work forces. Without patriarchy the western model would collapse because westerners aren't interested in creating a non-patriarchal model of society which might reduce their standards of living and force them to expend labour on things like childrearing.

I'd advise that you try to find a new term to replace "western" here.

There have been plenty of experiments within a "western" context to do things differently, but few of them have spread broadly. In addition, there are plenty of long-lived patriarchies outside whatever you might consider "the west" to be.

Re: Social media is a cause, not a correlate, of mental illness in teen girls

#417

Post by beezlebroxxxxxx »

ravenstine wrote: post #369
beezlebroxxxxxx wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ...that many people would find offensive. It's a lost cause to suggest that corporations implicitly understand something innate about female psychology... You are wrong. Feminism as a broad social movement, and as an academic discipline, explicitly sought to question and attack the social structures and behaviors that were often insisted to be "innate" about female psychology and well being. Basically no one would…

You're proving my point whether you realize it or not.

This article makes repeated references to the hyper focus on women's bodies on social media, and repeatedly points to them as a causal factor.

Please, present reputable published evidence for "innate" biological causation for the female sex in relation to the mental health effects of social media use and its impact on suicidal ideation. The absence of evidence is the not the proof of some grand conspiracy.

Re: Social media is a cause, not a correlate, of mental illness in teen girls

#418

Post by doubled112 »

cassac wrote: post #370
waboremo wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or, instead of creating hyper rebellious kids who seek to go against your strong absolute rules - talk to them. Get them bored of social media. Explain what's really going on, what different forms of social media exist, how to talk to your friends directly in a safe way rather than go through the drudge of Instagram. What limits should exist when using any of these communication platforms. They'll understand. Often w…

Having absolute rules doesn’t mean having rebellious kids. I have an absolute rule to look both ways before crossing the street and nobody had ever rebelled against that. But I 100% agree you do have to explain and you do have to eat your own dog food and try not to be too much of a hypocrite. They need to see you believe it yourself. And try not to lie with tall tales. I think every time a non life threatening absol…

Some people really just need to find out for themselves. All the talking it through will not convince them. Everybody is different. Even between my two boys, one is going to do it anyway, and one will be too busy thinking about it to do it.

Speaking of different, I do remember friends as a kid that went through a phase where they believed "no, they won't hit me or else". The "or else" was the driver getting in trouble, being sued, going to prison, something.

I never thought any of that would fix me, and continued to look.

Re: Social media is a cause, not a correlate, of mental illness in teen girls

#419

Post by moremetadata »

lock-the-spock wrote: post #403
moremetadata wrote: post #116

Social media is a psychological weapon that leaves no physical evidence which is why the state is making a big play on mental health. Its a control mechanism on the population because the state deliberately doesn't teach law and parents cant be relied upon, so social media can also be a way to psychological and biologically profile people before choosing to radicalise individuals, set them up for blackmail, or have t…

Im sorry but this is just absurd conspiracy psychobabble. Throw words and buzzphrases together as much as you like, there is still no coherent understanding or argument behind your post. "The government" (or the Illuminati, or the Jews, or ...) wanting XYZ from you because they are evil/malicious/warmongering/control freaks is just a trope. There is no reason why "the government" (who exactly?) needs a control mechan…

Look social media is not a basic single digit mental arithmetic test, you have to view it in the context of Divergent Thinking.

The Brick Test is a simple example, how many uses can you come up with for a house brick?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guilford%27s_Alternate_Uses

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divergent_thinking

Anyway I could argue you are using rule 4 from the section Twenty-Five Rules of Disinformation found on this webpage https://cryptome.org/2012/07/gent-forum-spies.htm

There are many tentacles to the state, which in itself can create cognitive dissonance, but the other problem you have is, you cant kill an idea. Take your anger out on a cop, the law prosecutes you for murder of a human, not a uniform, ergo you cant kill an idea, like law, religion & money.

Re: Social media is a cause, not a correlate, of mental illness in teen girls

#420

Post by hbrn »

lsy wrote: post #185

I think it's somewhat important to ask why this effect is more observable for girls than for boys, and Haidt does not seem to really reflect on that. Social media in and of itself is really just an accelerant for the particular set of social expectations we stack on girls and women around appearance and how that relates to self-worth. Boys have more capacity to transcend social media's focus on image and beauty by fi…

> Social media in and of itself is really just an accelerant for the particular set of social expectations we stack on girls and women around appearance and how that relates to self-worth

This is an extremely reductive take.

The depressing part about social media isn't just about beauty, it's about success in general. Social media made it very easy to show the image of success without actually being successful.

If you're basing your understanding of reality on social media, you will think that life is extremely unfair to you. Apparently all your friends are always eating at expensive restaurants, driving luxury cars, going on fancy vacations, and getting flowers every day.

This leads to a weird state where pretty much everyone is faking their success, but thinks everybody else's success is real. Which, if you think about, can be quite depressing.

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