Live data from Hacker News

Social media is a cause, not a correlate, of mental illness in teen girls

jonathanhaidt.substack.com

141–150 of 689 posts

Re: Social media is a cause, not a correlate, of mental illness in teen girls

#141
post #3

I wasn’t aware that there is a media campaign to discredit this finding. Teen suicides exploded in growth YoY the moment smartphones became cheap enough around 2009.

Teen suicides rose slower than every other cohort and had a lower base. https://afsp.org/suicide-statistics/

Re: Social media is a cause, not a correlate, of mental illness in teen girls

#142
post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Amish kinda slap, they didn't invent addictive social media, put a game show host in charge of nuclear weapons, or have a bunch of corporations change their icons to rainbow icons while still being shitty. They literally realized 300 years ago that they should opt out of the nonsense America descended into

I know that's meant to be funny, but the Amish community is a nightmare, from the outside looking in, very closely. I live in an area where there is a large Amish community; they outnumber "English" about 4:1. Patriarchy in all decisions. The old men make choices for families based on what they know is best, and you follow that rule, regardless of your own views. Women are not allowed a voice in formal decisions. Chi…

[deleted]

Re: Social media is a cause, not a correlate, of mental illness in teen girls

#143
post #2

I'm still reading it, but this is great so far. As a father to four little girls, though, it makes me feel really defeated. I can already see that social media has eroded my wife's mental health. I just don't know what to do in the next few years when our girls approach the age when everyone else will get an iPhone and have an Instagram account. I want to say no, but that leads to many other issues, including what th…

I would contest one point in the article, and I admit this is dependent on where you live:

> But social media is very different because it transforms social life for everyone, even for those who don’t use social media, whereas sugar consumption just harms the consumer.

In countries with single-payer healthcare (or socialised healthcare), it's not true that it harms only the consumer. If it turns into obesity, diabetes, or other medical conditions, then it may transform social life by virtue of adding pressure to the healthcare system. This is a rephrasing of the argument against smoking, where the argument that was smoking harms nobody else, and the counter was that smokers created a healthcare burden.

Arguably this is the same case in insurance-based countries, but the payment structure keeps the onus on the individual, not the overall system.

The point being that social media has damaging externalities no matter how it's framed.

Re: Social media is a cause, not a correlate, of mental illness in teen girls

#144
Schools should have Instagram Reality -classes pretty soon. Young kids really do compare themselves to the highlights of other people's lives.

They don't really take in the fact that the fitspo model in the picture is sucking in their stomach, flexing like crazy and posing in a very specific way to get the photo. And in many cases looking good is literally their job, they can spend 16 hours a day to look a specific way and have sponsors and money to do it.

Nor do they notice how that one influencer they are following just had one vacation to $fancy_location, but took thousands of photos in different clothes and keeps posting them all year round to give the impression of constant travel and luxury.

(Social) Media literacy is more important now than it ever was in the past.

Re: Social media is a cause, not a correlate, of mental illness in teen girls

#145
post #2

I'm still reading it, but this is great so far. As a father to four little girls, though, it makes me feel really defeated. I can already see that social media has eroded my wife's mental health. I just don't know what to do in the next few years when our girls approach the age when everyone else will get an iPhone and have an Instagram account. I want to say no, but that leads to many other issues, including what th…

I can recommend the book “American Girls” by Nancy Jo Sales.

I don’t have any daughters, but I’ve worked at some big social media companies, and this was required reading at one of them. The boss there did have daughters, but it wasn’t only so we would understand. It was so we wouldn’t build Trust and Safety headaches in the first place.

Re: Social media is a cause, not a correlate, of mental illness in teen girls

#146
post #55
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. It's not "quite clear" that "quitting social media alone is probably even worse and self-isolating than not taking part." It's clear from my experience as a parent, and from the experience of many others, that that isn't an issue. The child may whine and throw a tantrum, but that's not a reason to let the child be the parent.

I took my phone away from my daughter for a few weeks because she violated her technology contract. She literally did not meet up with friends a single time outside of school during that time because it was all arranged on iMessage. I don't regret what I did, but it definitely was isolating. Granted this is not my most socially pro-active kid (the most socially pro-active kid used a friend's phone to sign up for soci…

Was that your intent? You effectively grounded her. Actually worse because if she was grounded she could still talk to her friends. Trying to equate all "technology" and confiscate it like it's an extra nonessential thing like video games or toys is a mistake a lot of parents seem to be making in an environment where most social activity happens online and where everything is planned.

It's fine I guess if that's what you wanted out of it but it's a pretty harsh punishment all things considered. I would have taken the grounding every time.

Re: Social media is a cause, not a correlate, of mental illness in teen girls

#147
post #87

I don't necessarily disagree with the conclusion, but the dismissal of other factors is insufficient: > Why did a measure of loneliness at school go up around the world only after 2012, as the global economy got better and better? The economy didn't get better for everyone, in fact inequality rose starkly; this might be a correlating factor. > It’s not because of the 9/11 attacks, wars in the middle east, or school s…

> The economy didn't get better for everyone, in fact inequality rose starkly; this might be a correlating factor.

One thing that I thought about this is that while unemployment might have been low, both parents were more likely to be working.

Re: Social media is a cause, not a correlate, of mental illness in teen girls

#148

"It also creates a trap—a collective action problem—for girls and for parents. Each girl might be worse off quitting Instagram even though all girls would be better off if everyone quit." I like this part, it is quite clear quitting social media alone is probably even worse and self-isolating than not taking part. The solution would be to address it on a societal level, but that requires pretty strong societal/politi…

Isn’t this the prisoner’s dilemma? Does that make us prisoners?

Re: Social media is a cause, not a correlate, of mental illness in teen girls

#149

Social media is a psychological weapon that leaves no physical evidence which is why the state is making a big play on mental health. Its a control mechanism on the population because the state deliberately doesn't teach law and parents cant be relied upon, so social media can also be a way to psychological and biologically profile people before choosing to radicalise individuals, set them up for blackmail, or have t…

Have you ever read “The Chaos Machine” by Max Fisher?

Re: Social media is a cause, not a correlate, of mental illness in teen girls

#150

my only nitpick is - if social media were truly a drug, as some suggest, studies asking participants to reduce time on it wouldn't work because of addiction. how do we counter this?

Gambling, cigarette, alcohol, weed, cocaine or social media can all potentially get you addicted. It doesn't mean that on a random sample, most people cannot reduce their consumption. It depends of how hooked you are.
Post reply on HN