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Amazon employees express dismay, anger about sudden return-to-office policy

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Re: Amazon employees express dismay, anger about sudden return-to-office policy

#161
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"what do you mean i can't collect silicon valley salary while working from Montana?"

Why would that be unreasonable when making Silicon Valley profits for my employer?

Because your Warsaw coworkers are making the exact same profits for that exact same employer, yet paid much less.

Seeing SV people whine about this is quite offensive, and a little bit racist.

Re: Amazon employees express dismay, anger about sudden return-to-office policy

#162
post #25
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"what do you mean i can't collect silicon valley salary while working from Montana?"

If the company was willing to pay SV salaries to hire someone what does it change for the company if the worker is not in SV, specifically?

The employer is paying the SV premium because either they want the employee physically in SV for job duty reasons, or because other SV companies do, so if you're not in SV then fewer employers are trying to hire you for SV salaries, which reduces your salary offers.

If they truly don't care then why not hire two equally good people in Warsaw? It's because they do care.

SV employees do not want all remote to be equal. They would very much be on the losing side of that bargain.

Re: Amazon employees express dismay, anger about sudden return-to-office policy

#163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the problems I've always had with remote work is how do you justify large differences in pay between the US, Europe, and Asia if the location of an employee is not supposed to matter?

The C-Suite has been trying to outsource for 30+ years now. It doesn't work because the talent just isn't there.

For most it is working because talent is not what they are looking for, but cheap labor. I saw companies that prefer to pay 3 people in India to deliver less than 1 person in UK just because they want to have people in low cost locations no matter what the productivity is. They believe most/all people are equal in skills and output, it is linked to the the "equality" part of DEI.

Re: Amazon employees express dismay, anger about sudden return-to-office policy

#164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And, shockingly!, the software quality in Garmin devices started plummeting soon after. Weird Long time Garmin user here Have not noticed a drop j on n software quality. What specific metrics would you put forward to back up your assertion? As the saying goes extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

Got Garmin stock? I'm not in the habit of accepting homework assignments from randos on forums, but: Garmin bike head units went from rock solid and reliable to deeply sketchy and prone to losing sync, losing rides, and just flaking out around the same time (roughly the evolution from the x00 series of devices to the x10, e.g. 500 to 510, 800 to 810, etc). This was well documented in industry press, and a super commo…

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Re: Amazon employees express dismay, anger about sudden return-to-office policy

#165
post #98
post #64

I said this in another thread on this topic, but this was one of the key reasons I left Amazon in 2021. I knew this was coming. It was clear from tech survey (company-wide very long survey on all topics) that devs did not want to be in the office. Yet there was an email from leadership that said "We know you all can't wait to be back in the office". This bizarre dichotomy where we know they know we don't want this, b…

> The stock was reaching new heights every day; things were going great; the was no reason to change back at all. Amazon senior leadership were taking their culture of data-driven-everything and ignoring it because they like it better that way. Why is the real reason for this? It's not clear to me from reading the articles. There is one mention about how innovation happens more often when people are in the office. I…

> Why is the real reason for this? It's not clear to me from reading the articles.

Same reason why every study of open offices show that they're bad for productivity but managers and executives can't stop building them.

The managers have an emotional need for it, the data doesn't matter.

Re: Amazon employees express dismay, anger about sudden return-to-office policy

#166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The study[1] was based on starting from 100% Office randomizing the amount of days people worked from home and was measured by email quantity, quality, and manager performance reviews. A better wording would be "employees send more and better emails when working from home 60-77% of the time". To fully understand the problem you need to study going from WFH to RTO and productivity. Multiple studies have shown the bene…

If a significant number of people you work with are in the office regularly, then you have to be in the same office as them to thrive. If you want an environment where full remote work is possible then you need to ensure at least 80% of the people do not go to the office at all in any given month. If you get above 20% of the people going to the office on anything approaching a regular basis, those people will start t…

> Those in the office get annoyed by the weirdness of hearing their neighbor speak and then a moment later hearing the same in their headset

which is only a problem due to open office plans, which study after study have shown to be bad.

Re: Amazon employees express dismay, anger about sudden return-to-office policy

#167
post #64

I said this in another thread on this topic, but this was one of the key reasons I left Amazon in 2021. I knew this was coming. It was clear from tech survey (company-wide very long survey on all topics) that devs did not want to be in the office. Yet there was an email from leadership that said "We know you all can't wait to be back in the office". This bizarre dichotomy where we know they know we don't want this, b…

Of course the survey would show that devs don't want to be required to come to the office. Everyone wants the flexibility to choose. If you asked them if they want to move to 4-day work weeks I'm sure most devs would say yes. In the end you need to balance between what the employees want and what's reasonable for the company.

How is requiring staff to spend hours of unpaid time in commutes reasonable? In practice since working 70% from home I have more energy, more ideas, am less tired at 5he end of the day... Looks reasonable to me.

Re: Amazon employees express dismay, anger about sudden return-to-office policy

#168
post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but was the company tanking because we were all working from home? No? All I'm saying is that the company was operating just fine despite everyone being remote. There wasn't a financial reason to do it, and probably lots of good financial reasons not to (sell the offices, reduce overhead that way).

Yeah, it strikes me as odd that Amazon is a company whose success is absolutely predicated on having a minimal physical presence, yet their leadership has become obsessed with getting their employees to work in a physical office. Like, what if we could do all this over the internet?

I can understand they want it. What I can't stand is their doublespeak and complete inability to openly address the issue. "Yes, we understand you prefer remote work but we prefer to have an eye on you and control you more" is a fair statement. "We know you all want to come back" just makes me furious.

Re: Amazon employees express dismay, anger about sudden return-to-office policy

#169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Resignations are a feature, not a bug.

Sure, but they need to be spaced out. Too many people quitting at once means you can't get replacements for the positions you need trained and then those jobs don't done. Resignations are great when you can take someone from a position you don't want done at all anymore to one you still need done.

There is one caveat, though. I see a trend in the current of layoffs where the majority seem to be mid and junior positions, and at the same time FAANGS still hire seniors and other specific positions. But if you decide to go full RTO you will have a hard time getting experienced people work for you. Literally nobody from people I know would work full-time in the office (I know mostly seniors, for juniors this might be quite different for obvious reasons).

Re: Amazon employees express dismay, anger about sudden return-to-office policy

#170
post #59
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"what do you mean i can't collect silicon valley salary while working from Montana?"

Should we pay less to people without children or dependent family members, given that their cost of life is smaller? What about paying less to non-smokers, since their healthcare needs will be smaller?

Your not supposed to do that but just the same I would not discuss marriage or family in an interview.

Where I always ran into trouble was child care.

I had one boss who moved his parents to the US from China to raise his son, often commented that he never raised a finger to raise his child, expected everyone else to do the same. He had no sympathy for child care needs.

My next boss raised two kids in NYC, knew all the hoops you had to jump through, was very accommodating of child care needs and schooling.

Completely different experiences.

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