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Amazon employees express dismay, anger about sudden return-to-office policy

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Re: Amazon employees express dismay, anger about sudden return-to-office policy

#151

Post by drewcoo »

lettergram wrote: post #38
piva00 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the company was willing to pay SV salaries to hire someone what does it change for the company if the worker is not in SV, specifically?

Exactly, I hate the policy of paying based on region (I won’t work for those companies) You’re providing X value, and the company needs to make >X, often by some multiple mX profit so to speak. My costs are my business, and I shouldn’t be punished for making different life choices. If remote employees tend to produce a lower multiple, that’s fine. Just provide a salary at the reduced rate. Should be the same everywhe…

I'd think everyone in SV would be opposed to this because it's effectively bribing more people to move there.

Re: Amazon employees express dismay, anger about sudden return-to-office policy

#152

Post by eddieroger »

trpv wrote: post #43
unity1001 wrote: post #15

Dumb. Covid is endemic now and it makes everything more difficult for everyone. Talking, thinking, concentrating are the first things to get hit by any mild covid infection. Hauling people's asses to office even one single day a week will skyrocket infection rates and hurt productivity in a way nothing else can.

Would like to see some data on this. I don’t know of anyone who’s gotten Covid since… summer or so?

I know someone with an active infection right now. Also a decently well known podcaster in the Apple space had it in the last week or so. It still exists, but no one tests and everyone's over it. You're right about wanting data, but don't hold your breath for it, and it's still definitely going around.

Re: Amazon employees express dismay, anger about sudden return-to-office policy

#153

Post by WaffleIronMaker »

chasd00 wrote: post #70
gitfan86 wrote: post #5

No one should be surprised by this. I interviewed at AMZN and the online quiz was basically "Which delivery driver would you fire in this scenario" and the 1-on-1 interviews were with people who when I asked what you like about AMZN replied "the stock price". If you take a job at AMZN you are treated like a cog in the machine. And that is fine if that is what you want.

Well to be fair, you’re never more than a cog in your employer’s machine. That’s the whole point in having employees.

I think that's an overly cynical view. While employees exist ultimately to serve the company's goal, good companies will also work to support the employee's goals in return (e.g. time away from work, time to develop skills, general happiness, etc.).

Re: Amazon employees express dismay, anger about sudden return-to-office policy

#154

Post by drewcoo »

IE6 wrote: post #102
qwerty456127 wrote: post #27

Studies have found that employees thrive when they spend 23-40% of their time in the office.[1] This also is a very personal thing dependong on living conditions (also on personality type like introvert/extrovert, ADHD etc.). People with kids, small homes etc. will probably enjoy returning to the office. I valued my office workplace very much as long as we lived in a single-bedroom apartment but started hating going…

I'm probably one of those weirdos. Although my home office is awesome now I enjoy coming into the office. Unfortunately in the last 10 years at my company they have done everything to remove any incentive to come into the office (you no longer have your own cube you can setup the way you need it to be, you have shared "open space" style office, and reduction of seating capacity by 30% presumably to reduce tax burden.…

> your own cube

I stopped enjoying "going to the office" when I no longer had my own office: a room with a door and a large window to see the PNW gloom that kept me inside, working.

I don't want a shared office, a cube farm, or an open office, thanks.

Re: Amazon employees express dismay, anger about sudden return-to-office policy

#155

Post by granshaw »

bluGill wrote: post #121
xwdv wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What else is there to takeaway? They knew they weren’t working for a remote-first company. They knew what their contract said. They played a dangerous game and now they’re finally burned. You cannot collect an Amazon salary living out in Idaho or Nebraska.

While you cannot collect an Amazon salary out there - because Amazon won't pay you if you live there, you can collect a similar salary out there from other companies that just need good people and pay them well. Of course you will need to wade through the companies that figure since cost of living is less out there they should pay you less. However wages are competitive for full remote companies, so companies that al…

"similar salary"? Be realistic – a random startup is not going to give total comp similar to Amazon... you need to find another remote-friendly FAANG to get that, and I don't know if any of them are even hiring right now, let alone hiring full-remote

Re: Amazon employees express dismay, anger about sudden return-to-office policy

#156

Post by kgwgk »

Adraghast wrote: post #53
siva7 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That it can hire the same guy for less in Nebraska.

This sounds like circular reasoning to me. “You can’t collect an SV-level salary working remotely from the Bay because the company could just hire someone from Nebraska, and the company won’t pay him an SV-level salary because he’s not located in the Bay.”

Do you also find this circular reasoning: “You can’t get paid SF rates for a haircut when your barbershop is in Nebraska because people will find a cheaper option and people getting haircuts in Nebraska won’t pay SF rates because they are not in SF”?

Re: Amazon employees express dismay, anger about sudden return-to-office policy

#157

Post by ubermonkey »

chollida1 wrote: post #124
ubermonkey wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>mass layoff Yeah, could be. They know there will be attrition because of this; the labor market is still really favorable to workers, and there's plenty of remote work. I remember years ago when Garmin relocated its dev team from San Jose to Overland Park, Kansas -- paid relo! -- and lost a ton of devs in the process. Not many folks in San Jose are going to jump at the chance to move to Kansas, so they mostly ended…

> And, shockingly!, the software quality in Garmin devices started plummeting soon after. Weird Long time Garmin user here Have not noticed a drop j on n software quality. What specific metrics would you put forward to back up your assertion? As the saying goes extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

Got Garmin stock?

I'm not in the habit of accepting homework assignments from randos on forums, but:

Garmin bike head units went from rock solid and reliable to deeply sketchy and prone to losing sync, losing rides, and just flaking out around the same time (roughly the evolution from the x00 series of devices to the x10, e.g. 500 to 510, 800 to 810, etc). This was well documented in industry press, and a super common observation to make in the cycling groups I ride with.

Ten years ago, it was nearly a Garmin monoculture on the rides I'd do. One by one, my pals got pissed off about how flaky the devices were getting, and that led to a drastically reduced Garmin footprint.

Now, Wahoo has a demonstrably bigger presence, and Karoo/Hammerhead is creeping in, too. If Garmin had kept their quality up, that wouldn't have happened. GPS tech was theirs to lose.

Re: Amazon employees express dismay, anger about sudden return-to-office policy

#158

Post by knorker »

otikik wrote: post #59
knorker wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"what do you mean i can't collect silicon valley salary while working from Montana?"

Should we pay less to people without children or dependent family members, given that their cost of life is smaller? What about paying less to non-smokers, since their healthcare needs will be smaller?

Not sure if you're making my point, or arguing against it.

The employer has been paying a premium for having employees local. Now employees are getting upset because they're losing the premium. As if they are some dirty European or Indian. It's actually quite offensive to hear these complaints from US employees.

Re: Amazon employees express dismay, anger about sudden return-to-office policy

#159

Post by knorker »

eternalban wrote: post #95
knorker wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"what do you mean i can't collect silicon valley salary while working from Montana?"

The value extracted from a worker is not a function of their location. SV salaries are for technical ability and competence. And I like Montana so no offense to you folks out there, but sure, pay provincial salaries and get provincial work quality.

Then why are exactly the same workers in Poland being paid much less?

SV employees are overpaid. They are being paid to work in SV. Because no sane person would want to live in San Francisco, Menlo Park, Cupertino, or Mountain View.

And the people doing the exact same work in Warsaw, with the exact same skills and performance, are being underpaid.

I have no sympathy for the people on the SV side of this equation.

Re: Amazon employees express dismay, anger about sudden return-to-office policy

#160

Post by knorker »

AdrianB1 wrote: post #45
knorker wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"what do you mean i can't collect silicon valley salary while working from Montana?"

That is the opening question leading to "why hire anyone in USA or Western Europe when Asia exists?"

Yup. The company prefers people in the US in general, and SV in particular. That's why it "bribes" people to move there to work.

If you leave, then of course you should no longer be bribed to work there.

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