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World’s largest four-day work week trial finds few are going back

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Re: World’s largest four-day work week trial finds few are going back

#151

Post by Gigachad »

ravenstine wrote: post #25
NKosmatos wrote: post #17

Why would they want to return? One you do an “upgrade” in your life, i.e. like remote work, quality family time, it’s difficult/impossible to go back. The same is true for many other life “upgrades” like fiber internet connection, smart devices, smartphones, color TVs and so on

Some people might actually like working for its own sake, just as some truly prefer going into the office despite the tradeoffs. I am not one of those people. lol Not that I don't have a constant drive to do something , of course. I just wouldn't engage in surrogate work in order to feel like I'm worth something.

I'm one of those people, but I still prefer 4 days. I can then work on something else on the 5th day which I normally wouldn't get to do and keep my weekends for relaxing and not side projects.

Re: World’s largest four-day work week trial finds few are going back

#152

Post by Loocid »

lettergram wrote: post #85

Good, you all work 4 days and I’ll work my standard 6x10 6 days, 10hrs a day. When people get fired presumably I’ll still be standing. When promotion time comes around, the person who does the most will get the promotion. When bonus time comes, I’ll have the most done. You can try to regulate day(s), but if there’s people willing to work more they’ll set the standard.

Out of curiosity, how long have you been in the workforce?

Re: World’s largest four-day work week trial finds few are going back

#153

Post by robertlagrant »

pclmulqdq wrote: post #139
vouaobrasil wrote: post #13

When was a mathematician, I worked as hard as I could until I was mentally exhausted. I actually calculated how much I worked per week over a period of two years. On actual "hard thinking", like working through logic, I spent about 7 hours. There was another 7 hours writing and clarifying topics, and another 6 hours or so on classes, seminars (sort of like meetings, but productive). That gives a total of 20 hours per…

Personally, I have been observing my own technical work habits a lot recently. What I have noticed agrees with your narrative but disagrees with your point. Here's the rundown: * I can sustain hard mental labor (including but not limited to work) for about 50 hours per week total * I don't know when I'm going to be in the best state to do that work, and it depends on a lot of factors * Some of those factors are exter…

I think I'm like this. I've pushed myself fairly hard with technical work in the past, and got up to about 80 hours a week for weeks at a time, but about 50 is my useful maximum without diminishing returns.

Re: World’s largest four-day work week trial finds few are going back

#155

Post by np- »

Frost1x wrote: post #89
standardUser wrote: post #50

I think it's worth considering that, in the US, the ultimate leap from 5 to 4 day work weeks would require a change in labor laws to mandate full-time status and overtime pay cutoff at 32 hours/week. Close to 60% of US workers are hourly. I can't predict all of the ramifications from that kind of change, but I have to imagine it would largely benefit workers. I wish we had a major political party that was at least wi…

>We all know this "40 hours" nonsense is just historical happenstance, not some ideal or even well-reasoned number, let alone balanced in the interest of the overwhelming majority (working people). The more and more I see cases like this that exist, the more I feel it's yet more supporting evidence that the US is a failing democracy. We can point fingers and play responsibility games, we can claim its minority protec…

To be pedantic, the US has never been a democracy, it has always been a republic and it was built in to give land equal or more power than individuals. Though I don’t deny that it seems to be either in or approaching a failure mode (though perhaps the observant may notice it never worked as it was advertised even from Day 1, there was never really a success mode).

Re: World’s largest four-day work week trial finds few are going back

#156

Post by Gigachad »

askvictor wrote: post #134

Where do people feel the extra day should fall? While Monday or Friday is convenient, I can definitely see a point to making it Wednesday, so you can re-charge and be more productive for the second half of the week; in a normal 5 day week, I definitely see tiredness creeping in by Thursday and Friday.

I've been doing it on Monday and it works well. I just take the days off as unpaid days in the leave system so I can request a different day whenever I want or when Monday is a public holiday.

Re: World’s largest four-day work week trial finds few are going back

#157

Post by HEmanZ »

blitz_skull wrote: post #148
HEmanZ wrote: post #125

In America I would really like to see people balance work and life better, and normalizing a 4 day workweek would go a long way to help that. We have a business culture and set of laws that I think results most people sacrificing too much life to get stuff that doesn’t make them happy. BUT I disagree strongly with this idea that anyone who works more than 30 hours per week is just unproductive. That’s just factually…

I think most folks, especially the ones I’ve spoken to on the issue—specifically object to the idea that more than 40 hours nets any real gain for KNOWLEDGE work. Results may vary. I don’t think anyone is arguing for example that our paramedics aren’t doing anything useful after 40 hours. That’s the key distinction and as someone who has worked a distinctly bullshit job his entire career; I’m not rushing to spend any…

I still argue against this for all knowledge work. I keep seeing this term “bullshit jobs” and need to probably look more into it, but it seems to refer to office jobs where huge amounts of time are wasted on unproductive work. I’ve had this kind of work in the past. But not all knowledge work is like this.

I’m a software engineer, and on some of the big projects I’ve been on I have squeezed massive amounts of real productivity out of long long hours. I know managers, bankers, real estate agents, and lawyers who also work long hours and get significantly more done for it. They take an hour less of work per day and start to legitimately fall behind (maybe that’s a good litmus test for how “bullshit” job is? How much time can you take off before it becomes noticeable?). The reality is a spectrum and we shouldn’t bring down some subset in favor of another.

Re: World’s largest four-day work week trial finds few are going back

#158

Post by Izkata »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #110
nerdbert wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If that's the case, then there should be a clear understanding that I am completely unavailable from the moment I leave the office for the day.

That's usually the understanding everyone has by default, unless you're doing some specific job that requires greater availability (and are compensated for it), or... you're eroding this understanding yourself by doing something unwise, like replying to company e-mails or IMs after hours. One rule I learned to stick to: never install apps for company e-mail and IM chats on your personal smartphone. Just don't. Otherw…

We've had to explicitly tell just-out-of-college new hires to stop at the end of the workday. The reasons are different for each but a lot of them have gone home and kept working without being asked or expected to.

Re: World’s largest four-day work week trial finds few are going back

#159

Post by gopalv »

askvictor wrote: post #134

Where do people feel the extra day should fall? While Monday or Friday is convenient, I can definitely see a point to making it Wednesday, so you can re-charge and be more productive for the second half of the week; in a normal 5 day week, I definitely see tiredness creeping in by Thursday and Friday.

> I can definitely see a point to making it Wednesday

You probably agree a lot with CGP Grey on this video[1]

I really liked when Cloudera did "unplug days" which basically threw in an extra day off every 3 weeks and a double extra off every 3 months, but it was a Friday so there was always the temptation to drive out somewhere or go do something for 3 days.

If it had been Wednesdays, we'd have just slept and relaxed instead.

1 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALaTm6VzTBw

Re: World’s largest four-day work week trial finds few are going back

#160

Post by fshr »

rodgerd wrote: post #108
vouaobrasil wrote: post #13

When was a mathematician, I worked as hard as I could until I was mentally exhausted. I actually calculated how much I worked per week over a period of two years. On actual "hard thinking", like working through logic, I spent about 7 hours. There was another 7 hours writing and clarifying topics, and another 6 hours or so on classes, seminars (sort of like meetings, but productive). That gives a total of 20 hours per…

To add to your anecdote: Darwin wrote On the Origin of Species with a day that ran: Breakfast and a walk; 90 minutes of writing; spending time with his wife reading their letters and a novel; another 90 minutes of writing; and lunch. After lunch was attending to his correspondence, reading with his wife, then dinner and games. For all the talk of "crushing" and "changing the world" I doubt that anything almost anyone…

Darwin was born to a rich family and the book was published when he was 50. I guess I see the point you're trying to make, but his life was very much not like the average person. It was also over 150 years ago; the world he lived in was so far different from 2023 it's absurd. I don't understand why you would use an example of someone extra-ordinary, a geo/biologist no less, in a critique of hustle culture.

Edit: I'd also recommend reading about his health and overwork. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_of_Charles_Darwin

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