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World’s largest four-day work week trial finds few are going back

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Re: World’s largest four-day work week trial finds few are going back

#131

Post by askvictor »

mrmincent wrote: post #3

I’ve gone down to 4 days, taking Fridays off to look after my son, and I certainly won’t be going back to 5 days until he’s in school. Looking after a toddler all day isn’t exactly a day off, but it is extremely rewarding, and something I’d recommend to any parent thinking about dropping down a day. It definitely has some downsides however, I’m the only one in the team that’s off that day, so there’s usually meetings…

I did this, then when my son went to school, kept the day off. It's super valuable to just get some time for yourself. Have recently changed career and gone back full time, but pining for that extra time (luckily my company seems to be thinking about a 4 day week)

Re: World’s largest four-day work week trial finds few are going back

#132

Post by sodapopcan »

bavila wrote: post #118
vouaobrasil wrote: post #13

When was a mathematician, I worked as hard as I could until I was mentally exhausted. I actually calculated how much I worked per week over a period of two years. On actual "hard thinking", like working through logic, I spent about 7 hours. There was another 7 hours writing and clarifying topics, and another 6 hours or so on classes, seminars (sort of like meetings, but productive). That gives a total of 20 hours per…

> My conclusions after observing a ton of people in technical and nontechnical jobs is that beyond working 20-25 hours a week, having people do more is useless... I'm not so sure about this. I was working in a remote "full-stack" (but really 90% front-end role) for 14 months from the start of January 2021 to the end of February 2022. I tracked my hours religiously the entire time I was employed there (not required, b…

That's fine but many people can't, and don't, do this. Most people I've worked with have varying degrees of how long they can pay attention and how much they can get done in a day.

It's also not just about quantity buy quality. I'm certainly not suggesting that you were doing subpar work or anything, just that there is a spectrum there. For example I had a teammate who made incredibly disruptive and positive changes to how and what my team worked on. Yet he would also arrive at work with barely a second to spare before standup and most days he would leave _at least_ an hour early. Some days he was clearly not doing much work and even pretty brazen about it if confronted about it (he wasn't a dick about it just be like, "Oh, I'm just trying to look busy"). When he did work (which was more often than I'm making it seem), he was very serious and focused about it and would put in extra time when he was really into what he was working on (this of course was not to make up all the leaving early, haha).

Re: World’s largest four-day work week trial finds few are going back

#133

Post by incrudible »

iamacyborg wrote: post #34
Invictus0 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You get healthcare 7 days a week but only work for 4. Salary is only one component of compensation

What a strange way to think about health care. Can you explain what you mean when you say you only work for 4? In the UK where this trial was run both the employer and the employee pay for National Insurance which covers nationalised healthcare. Whether you work 1 day or 7 a week, you still get covered.

In other words, you get the full package while contributing less, if you choose to work less.

Re: World’s largest four-day work week trial finds few are going back

#134

Post by askvictor »

Where do people feel the extra day should fall? While Monday or Friday is convenient, I can definitely see a point to making it Wednesday, so you can re-charge and be more productive for the second half of the week; in a normal 5 day week, I definitely see tiredness creeping in by Thursday and Friday.

Re: World’s largest four-day work week trial finds few are going back

#135

Post by mettamage »

mrmincent wrote: post #3

I’ve gone down to 4 days, taking Fridays off to look after my son, and I certainly won’t be going back to 5 days until he’s in school. Looking after a toddler all day isn’t exactly a day off, but it is extremely rewarding, and something I’d recommend to any parent thinking about dropping down a day. It definitely has some downsides however, I’m the only one in the team that’s off that day, so there’s usually meetings…

In the Netherlands I also take a 20% gross pay cut. So net, that's more like a 10% pay cut. It doesn't pay to work 5 days in NL.

Re: World’s largest four-day work week trial finds few are going back

#136

Post by incrudible »

warkdarrior wrote: post #43
Invictus0 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You get healthcare 7 days a week but only work for 4. Salary is only one component of compensation

We should also restrict food and housing access to the days you work.

We already do. If you work less, you get paid less, thus can afford less food and shelter. You get lower unemployment benefits. For healthcare however, you get the whole package, regardless.

Re: World’s largest four-day work week trial finds few are going back

#137

Post by askvictor »

freitzkriesler2 wrote: post #38

Instead of 3 day weekends, why don't we go to a 6 day week? The only reason we have 7 days is because of the 7 classical planets.

A lunar month (28 days) is a slightly useful and easily measured unit of time, but a bit too long for a lot of purposes. But it only splits into 47 and 214, so a shorter measure would be 2 days (not so useful), 4 days (maybe), 7 days (maybe) and 14 days (too long). A seven day measure aligns nicely with the moon's quarters as well. That's what I had always assumed was the reason for a 7 day week; I wonder if the celestial bodies reasoning is more of a religious cover story for something people were already doing (this is pure conjecture on my part)

Re: World’s largest four-day work week trial finds few are going back

#138

Post by hackerfromthefu »

lumost wrote: post #66
vouaobrasil wrote: post #13

When was a mathematician, I worked as hard as I could until I was mentally exhausted. I actually calculated how much I worked per week over a period of two years. On actual "hard thinking", like working through logic, I spent about 7 hours. There was another 7 hours writing and clarifying topics, and another 6 hours or so on classes, seminars (sort of like meetings, but productive). That gives a total of 20 hours per…

It’s Curious, I wonder if as the portion of time people spend on hard problems increases the rate of burnout increases. 10 years ago a much larger percentage of my day was spent on non-taxing activities that have since been automated.

I think so

Re: World’s largest four-day work week trial finds few are going back

#139

Post by pclmulqdq »

vouaobrasil wrote: post #13

When was a mathematician, I worked as hard as I could until I was mentally exhausted. I actually calculated how much I worked per week over a period of two years. On actual "hard thinking", like working through logic, I spent about 7 hours. There was another 7 hours writing and clarifying topics, and another 6 hours or so on classes, seminars (sort of like meetings, but productive). That gives a total of 20 hours per…

Personally, I have been observing my own technical work habits a lot recently. What I have noticed agrees with your narrative but disagrees with your point. Here's the rundown:

* I can sustain hard mental labor (including but not limited to work) for about 50 hours per week total

* I don't know when I'm going to be in the best state to do that work, and it depends on a lot of factors

* Some of those factors are external, some depend on the project, etc.

* Sometimes, that mental labor needs to go somewhere else, and that subtracts from my overall work budget. That includes things like weird social situations, fixing something around the house, etc.

* I also spend a lot of time passively daydreaming about the last thing I worked on. This is often productive, but also often isn't.

* My productive output also varies a lot on those factors: some weeks, I can produce 60 hours of work, and others only 15-20

I think if you have bursty work patterns like this, it is actually beneficial to have more office days rather than fewer, to "catch" as much productive time and daydreaming time as possible. However, it's an even better argument for remote work, because that minimizes other forms of mental labor, like driving.

Re: World’s largest four-day work week trial finds few are going back

#140

Post by anigbrowl »

xyzelement wrote: post #101
QuercusMax wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They cut the group responsible for responding to pictures of children being abused. I don't want to work at a place that considers this "more productive". https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-02-20/australian-twitter-st...

I have seen reports that people who tried to get the "old" Twitter to take down child abuse images were able to get it to happen recently. If anything, the reports is that child abuse content on Twitter is down since the new regime. Which I think makes the completely opposite point of yours.

You can find reports to support any opinion, which is why assertions are better supported with evidence. Elon Musk and anti-trafficking activist Eliza Bleu made a big deal about cleaning up Twitter back in December. Since then Ms Bleu seems to have spent more time mired in drama with former fans/supporters. It's not clear to me that there is any objective way to measure the success, failure, or efforts of Twitter in this area at present.
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