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World’s largest four-day work week trial finds few are going back

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Re: World’s largest four-day work week trial finds few are going back

#31

Post by TigeriusKirk »

Vinnl wrote: post #28

It's the one thing I miss most from working for Dutch companies: being able to take a 20% pay cut and work 20% less. Theoretically, that should be a great deal for my employer: the extra rest, and just the way productive work is usually spread out across the week, means that my productivity definitely was not down 20% compared to now, so I was cheaper per hour. Yet even that culturally seems to be a hard sell in a ma…

In the 90s my girlfriend worked for the American office of a Danish industrial design company that closed at noon on Fridays. They claimed it was how everyone in Denmark worked, but I had no way to confirm it at the time.

Re: World’s largest four-day work week trial finds few are going back

#32

Post by TeMPOraL »

kennywinker wrote: post #14
TeMPOraL wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Usual counterpoint is that you're not being paid just for the things you get done, but also for availability - for being there when there's a need to handle something unexpected. This has real value to a business, so you being available for 80% of the time justifies some degree of pay cut.

Maybe for some jobs. But for the majority of software jobs? Not really.

I can't really tell. I mean, there's enough people on HN who say they do pair programming at work, and some even that they do whole projects almost exclusively in some sort of group coding sessions - to me this seems like a bizarro world, so what do I know about majority of software jobs?

For me personally, every software job I've done so far - including both the ones where I was one of few (or even the only) coders in the company, and ones where I was but a small cog in a multinational corporation - all of them had an availability component. Usually in the form of being there to answer some question, or help someone who's blocked or slowed down by an issue I'm the best suited to resolve (or the only one in the team/branch/company who can).

Re: World’s largest four-day work week trial finds few are going back

#33

Post by GordonS »

Vinnl wrote: post #28

It's the one thing I miss most from working for Dutch companies: being able to take a 20% pay cut and work 20% less. Theoretically, that should be a great deal for my employer: the extra rest, and just the way productive work is usually spread out across the week, means that my productivity definitely was not down 20% compared to now, so I was cheaper per hour. Yet even that culturally seems to be a hard sell in a ma…

I did this for years in the UK too, it was a tradeoff I was willing to make, and I'm glad I did.

Re: World’s largest four-day work week trial finds few are going back

#34

Post by iamacyborg »

Invictus0 wrote: post #30
Vinnl wrote: post #28

It's the one thing I miss most from working for Dutch companies: being able to take a 20% pay cut and work 20% less. Theoretically, that should be a great deal for my employer: the extra rest, and just the way productive work is usually spread out across the week, means that my productivity definitely was not down 20% compared to now, so I was cheaper per hour. Yet even that culturally seems to be a hard sell in a ma…

You get healthcare 7 days a week but only work for 4. Salary is only one component of compensation

What a strange way to think about health care.

Can you explain what you mean when you say you only work for 4?

In the UK where this trial was run both the employer and the employee pay for National Insurance which covers nationalised healthcare. Whether you work 1 day or 7 a week, you still get covered.

Re: World’s largest four-day work week trial finds few are going back

#35

Post by Vinnl »

Invictus0 wrote: post #30
Vinnl wrote: post #28

It's the one thing I miss most from working for Dutch companies: being able to take a 20% pay cut and work 20% less. Theoretically, that should be a great deal for my employer: the extra rest, and just the way productive work is usually spread out across the week, means that my productivity definitely was not down 20% compared to now, so I was cheaper per hour. Yet even that culturally seems to be a hard sell in a ma…

You get healthcare 7 days a week but only work for 4. Salary is only one component of compensation

Dock it off my paycheck too, I don't care, I want that 4-day work week!

Though of course, being in the Netherlands, my employer doesn't pay for my health insurance.

Edit: as for the general point about compensation being more than salary, it is also common in the Netherlands that PTO is prorated to the hours you work per week. That is fine; I'm happy to scale everything down to 4/5th if I can scale my working hours down to that.

Re: World’s largest four-day work week trial finds few are going back

#36

Post by mysterydip »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #11
kennywinker wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Based on most of the studies i’ve seen, at least for office/information jobs, that pay cut is unjustified. People mostly get as much done in 4 days as 5.

Usual counterpoint is that you're not being paid just for the things you get done, but also for availability - for being there when there's a need to handle something unexpected. This has real value to a business, so you being available for 80% of the time justifies some degree of pay cut.

If only I was paid for all those "on call" hours when I was a sysadmin :)

Re: World’s largest four-day work week trial finds few are going back

#37

Post by permo-w »

RupertEisenhart wrote: post #12

Couldn't help think of this[0]: the idea that chatgpt and other such breakthroughs might help us hit escape velocity from bullshit jobs. [0] https://thezvi.substack.com/p/escape-velocity-from-bullshit-...

as I see it, until now automation has done the opposite. it’s scarcified valuable skilled manufacturing jobs and forced more and more people into the service industry. I don’t see why this will be any different.

that’s the dystopia I’m terrified of, no one starving or homeless, but as penance we all have to be waitors and shop attendants for the landed upper classes

Re: World’s largest four-day work week trial finds few are going back

#39

Post by bayindirh »

mysterydip wrote: post #36
TeMPOraL wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Usual counterpoint is that you're not being paid just for the things you get done, but also for availability - for being there when there's a need to handle something unexpected. This has real value to a business, so you being available for 80% of the time justifies some degree of pay cut.

If only I was paid for all those "on call" hours when I was a sysadmin :)

Our team is paid no overtime, because we're considered "able to tend any emergencies and organize themselves if required" at off-hours too.

Well, our system almost never creates that kind of emergency, but we think this is a fair assumption.

Re: World’s largest four-day work week trial finds few are going back

#40

Post by urbandw311er »

freitzkriesler2 wrote: post #38

Instead of 3 day weekends, why don't we go to a 6 day week? The only reason we have 7 days is because of the 7 classical planets.

It’s probably easier to effect change within a small region using the existing days than persuade the entire world to change their calendar simultaneously.
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