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World’s largest four-day work week trial finds few are going back

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Re: World’s largest four-day work week trial finds few are going back

#101

Post by xyzelement »

QuercusMax wrote: post #78
skellington wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no doubt that most companies (and the government) could cut 20% with no effect on their productivity. It's just no practical to ride the razors edge of leanness and it also would probably harm morale. Twitter cut 80% of it's workforce and is becoming MORE productive.

They cut the group responsible for responding to pictures of children being abused. I don't want to work at a place that considers this "more productive". https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-02-20/australian-twitter-st...

I have seen reports that people who tried to get the "old" Twitter to take down child abuse images were able to get it to happen recently.

If anything, the reports is that child abuse content on Twitter is down since the new regime.

Which I think makes the completely opposite point of yours.

Re: World’s largest four-day work week trial finds few are going back

#102

Post by Tiktaalik »

I think a four day, 32h work week is a good idea, though I'd be concerned if companies were so restrictive around their contracts that they banned people from working elsewhere with their free time and extra day off. That should not be allowed to happen.

Older employees that are established and have met various life goals (eg. owning a home) may be very satisfied to only work four days and to use their time for hobbies, but those that haven't met those life goals may not feel the same way.

Younger employees for example that are feeling anxiety around high costs of living and wanting to earn more money should have the freedom to work more and work that extra day somewhere if they so choose. (Perhaps they could work on a startup idea...)

Re: World’s largest four-day work week trial finds few are going back

#103

Post by ed25519FUUU »

I work at a FANG now. There’s really no job openings I’m interested in, but if a recruiter dropped by and said they needed an expert and had a company-wide 4-day workweek I’d probably take their call.

That’s a perk that can not be matched at FANG. Truly a way to set yourself apart.

Re: World’s largest four-day work week trial finds few are going back

#104

Post by piva00 »

Invictus0 wrote: post #30
Vinnl wrote: post #28

It's the one thing I miss most from working for Dutch companies: being able to take a 20% pay cut and work 20% less. Theoretically, that should be a great deal for my employer: the extra rest, and just the way productive work is usually spread out across the week, means that my productivity definitely was not down 20% compared to now, so I was cheaper per hour. Yet even that culturally seems to be a hard sell in a ma…

You get healthcare 7 days a week but only work for 4. Salary is only one component of compensation

Healthcare is not part of compensation, it's a basic modern human need that societies should take care of. That your system doesn't work that way tells more about your system than what healthcare is.

Re: World’s largest four-day work week trial finds few are going back

#105

Post by sleton38234234 »

ThePowerOfFuet wrote: post #42
Invictus0 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You get healthcare 7 days a week but only work for 4. Salary is only one component of compensation

> You get healthcare 7 days a week but only work for 4. Salary is only one component of compensation Thinking of healthcare as compensation is what got America into the healthcare mess it's in today.

well, it's not the root cause. there's many reasons why healthcare is way too expensive in america. the fact is that employers pay a huge sum for healthcare in the US and this makes up a sizable portion of your compensation. if you earn 50K and the health insurance for your family costs 20K per year, that's pretty big.

the solution of course is to get those healthcare premiums lowered: that's going to require some kind of rationing.

Re: World’s largest four-day work week trial finds few are going back

#106

Post by ioseph »

lettergram wrote: post #85

Good, you all work 4 days and I’ll work my standard 6x10 6 days, 10hrs a day. When people get fired presumably I’ll still be standing. When promotion time comes around, the person who does the most will get the promotion. When bonus time comes, I’ll have the most done. You can try to regulate day(s), but if there’s people willing to work more they’ll set the standard.

"When promotion time comes around, the person who does the most will get the promotion."

Oh my sweet summer child.

Re: World’s largest four-day work week trial finds few are going back

#107

Post by piva00 »

ravenstine wrote: post #21

Good. If civilization isn't moving to improve quality of life, but to make sure that we keep working more and more, we have to ask ourselves what exactly is the point of technological progress.

If you are not familiar with it, may I present to you Bertrand Russell's "In Praise of Idleness". In 1920 he was already advocating exactly that.

Re: World’s largest four-day work week trial finds few are going back

#108

Post by rodgerd »

vouaobrasil wrote: post #13

When was a mathematician, I worked as hard as I could until I was mentally exhausted. I actually calculated how much I worked per week over a period of two years. On actual "hard thinking", like working through logic, I spent about 7 hours. There was another 7 hours writing and clarifying topics, and another 6 hours or so on classes, seminars (sort of like meetings, but productive). That gives a total of 20 hours per…

To add to your anecdote: Darwin wrote On the Origin of Species with a day that ran: Breakfast and a walk; 90 minutes of writing; spending time with his wife reading their letters and a novel; another 90 minutes of writing; and lunch.

After lunch was attending to his correspondence, reading with his wife, then dinner and games.

For all the talk of "crushing" and "changing the world" I doubt that anything almost anyone here works on or ever has worked on will have the same impact as Origin. The cult of productivity is unhinged, madness.

Re: World’s largest four-day work week trial finds few are going back

#109

Post by piva00 »

greedo wrote: post #72
Philip-J-Fry wrote: post #62

I could see quite a few companies reaching for this over pay rises. Considering inflation right now, it may make sense to suggest a 4 day working week at their existing pay versus offering an inflation beating pay rise.

Haha, "inflation beating pay raise." Our VP of HR said "If we were to give you raises when inflation goes up, we'd have to cut your salary when it goes down." Bitch, when was the last time we had significant deflation?

I'd sign that agreement in a heartbeat. Seriously, if my VP of HR said that I'd challenge them to write an employment agreement with that exact phrasing, my salary will follow whatever is the inflation/deflation rate for the year...

Re: World’s largest four-day work week trial finds few are going back

#110

Post by TeMPOraL »

nerdbert wrote: post #73
TeMPOraL wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Usual counterpoint is that you're not being paid just for the things you get done, but also for availability - for being there when there's a need to handle something unexpected. This has real value to a business, so you being available for 80% of the time justifies some degree of pay cut.

If that's the case, then there should be a clear understanding that I am completely unavailable from the moment I leave the office for the day.

That's usually the understanding everyone has by default, unless you're doing some specific job that requires greater availability (and are compensated for it), or... you're eroding this understanding yourself by doing something unwise, like replying to company e-mails or IMs after hours.

One rule I learned to stick to: never install apps for company e-mail and IM chats on your personal smartphone. Just don't. Otherwise, you never truly "leave the office for the day".

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