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IRIS²: The EU’s Response to Musk’s Starlink

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Re: IRIS²: The EU’s Response to Musk’s Starlink

#161

Post by hef19898 »

sofixa wrote: post #89
luckylion wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Germany's problem is German, not European. I'm not sure if you've noticed who's calling the shots in the EU. Germany's problem is the EU's problem. I often feel like there's a fundamental misunderstanding in German politics which then spreads to EU politics. They make the same basic mistake the Soviets made: believing that people are perfectly rational, don't react to incentives, and will do what's best for everyon…

> I'm not sure if you've noticed who's calling the shots in the EU. Yeah, the EU. > Germany's problem is the EU's problem. Certainly not with regards to infrastructure. All countries around Germany are strictly better for mobile and broadband infrastructure.

Cambodia was better almost 15 years ago. That Germany's internet is the mess it is, is purely Germany's fault.

Re: IRIS²: The EU’s Response to Musk’s Starlink

#162

Post by hef19898 »

inglor_cz wrote: post #155
hef19898 wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who again came up with the first mRNA Covid vaccine?

You are playing into my hand. Most of the groundlaying work on mRNA has been done by Katalin Karikó, a Hungarian scientist who moved to the US to continue her research in better conditions. The history of mRNA research is pretty tangled, but its majority took place at the American side of the pond. Unless you want to cherry-pick one particular moment and disregard all others, then no, mRNA technology is not a Europea…

Absolutely not. The most common Covid vaccines originated in Europe (AZ, BionTech) with the exception of Moderna (US).

To take an example were all the ground work was done in Europe and later propelled US companies to riches: MP3.

But hey, if you want to play Super Trump with countries, and the US to win, fine for me. The US win by virtue of being the most exceptional country on earth.

Re: IRIS²: The EU’s Response to Musk’s Starlink

#163

Post by lispm »

inglor_cz wrote: post #150
lispm wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But there were times when German companies actually were world leaders in the big things as well We have the world leader in civil aerospace in France/Germany, Many high-speed trains in the world are coming from France or Germany. There are many large high-tech sectors. It's nice that Estonia is successful, but it's not where the next big chip manufacturing sites will be build. Intel and TSMC are in talks to move t…

"The EU has a lot to catch up in many countries" The trouble is that this has been known since at least the late 1990s, discussed quite often, plans made, and yet the gap hasn't grown appreciably smaller. It has arguably widened . 15 years ago, you could choose from a plentitude of European feature phones. Now the vast majority of our own mobile phone market is dominated by US or East Asian products.

The more important is to use the EU to create the large market which is needed.

Btw., I'm a happy user of a bunch of US tech products. It's not that I need to replace all that. I want the EU to be competitive, but I'm also using other stuff. Apple in the recent years made some excellent product technology, like their chips, which are produced in Taiwan, also with a lot of technology from Europe.

Re: IRIS²: The EU’s Response to Musk’s Starlink

#164

Post by hef19898 »

inglor_cz wrote: post #150
lispm wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But there were times when German companies actually were world leaders in the big things as well We have the world leader in civil aerospace in France/Germany, Many high-speed trains in the world are coming from France or Germany. There are many large high-tech sectors. It's nice that Estonia is successful, but it's not where the next big chip manufacturing sites will be build. Intel and TSMC are in talks to move t…

"The EU has a lot to catch up in many countries" The trouble is that this has been known since at least the late 1990s, discussed quite often, plans made, and yet the gap hasn't grown appreciably smaller. It has arguably widened . 15 years ago, you could choose from a plentitude of European feature phones. Now the vast majority of our own mobile phone market is dominated by US or East Asian products.

There is, unless I miss someone, only one US ohone player left, Apple. Everything else is Asian.

Re: IRIS²: The EU’s Response to Musk’s Starlink

#165

Post by hef19898 »

justincormack wrote: post #72
wewxjfq wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Europe bashing on HN is so lame. A German start-up developed a working mRNA vaccine the same time an American start-up developed a stupid blood test fraud. You wouldn't hear the end of it if it was the other way round. What big tech came out of the US the past decade? The juicer? If it's about Europe, every quibble is used for sweeping blows, when it's about the US, the failures are all swept under the rug.

Thats not a great comparison given Wirecard.

And Wirecard isn't even close to Enron.

Re: IRIS²: The EU’s Response to Musk’s Starlink

#166

Post by gizmo »

arlort wrote: post #122
fweimer wrote: post #65

I think IRIS² is actually an extension of the EU's GOVSATCOM initiative: https://defence-industry-space.ec.europa.eu/eu-space-policy/... This means it's for government use, and is not really comparable to commercial end user services.

Yeah, don't know why they posted Renew's page instead of the official press release but here they are: https://defence-industry-space.ec.europa.eu/adoption-europea... https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/STATEM...

> IRIS² will be a constellation at the cutting edge of technology, to give Europe a lead, for example in quantum encryption. It will therefore be a vector of innovation.

Quantum encryption?? Can anybody explain how this is related to satellites?

Re: IRIS²: The EU’s Response to Musk’s Starlink

#167

Post by aaron695 »

kensai wrote: post #28

There is always bashing if there is something about the EU and its national projects, not always deserved. However sometimes I wished HN showed more of local projects. For example: has there been a post about the European AI? https://www.aleph-alpha.com/

[dead]

Re: IRIS²: The EU’s Response to Musk’s Starlink

#168

Post by sschueller »

peterfirefly wrote: post #144
sschueller wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is just not the case. Look at companies like AMSL which no one comes even close. It is likely that every device you own has a microchip made with a machine by AMSL. Is it sexy? Is there a narcissistic tweeting CEO? No, but there is inovasion at the highest level. The mRNA vaccine also came out of the "EU". What the EU has little off and what you are probably complaining about it throwing money at a hundred thing…

> The mRNA vaccine also came out of the "EU". Why did BioNTech have to partner up with American Pfizer to get anywhere with their (groundbreaking!) technology? Why did we give the Americans the secret sauce? > Rampent capitalism causes people to suffer and die. Ill-informed but strongly held attitudes like that are a big problem in the EU. There would be a lot fewer people on Earth and they would suffer a lot more if…

I am not saying no capitalism, I am saying regulation is good. Such as in no child labor[1] and enforced safety standards[2], which yes, slows down innovation but safe lives. Sadly most regulations are made in blood.

No regulations are fine and dandy unless you are one of the first 346 to die from Boeing's MAX disaster until the "market corrects itself".

Even the EU has been complaining how expensive it is to run rail through Switzerland. The reason being regulation which prevent such disasters as in Ohio. [3]

[1] https://www.theguardian.com/law/2021/nov/02/child-labor-laws...

[2] https://www.forbes.com/sites/alanohnsman/2019/03/01/tesla-sa...

[3] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mwx_rumXUAw

Re: IRIS²: The EU’s Response to Musk’s Starlink

#169

Post by arlort »

gizmo wrote: post #166
arlort wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, don't know why they posted Renew's page instead of the official press release but here they are: https://defence-industry-space.ec.europa.eu/adoption-europea... https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/STATEM...

> IRIS² will be a constellation at the cutting edge of technology, to give Europe a lead, for example in quantum encryption. It will therefore be a vector of innovation. Quantum encryption?? Can anybody explain how this is related to satellites?

Don't know how it's related to the project but I guess they'd want to use the satellites for the quantum key exchange

Re: IRIS²: The EU’s Response to Musk’s Starlink

#170

Post by usrusr »

ilyt wrote: post #90
0xDEF wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was little demand for non-GPS satnav. There is plenty of demand for non-Musk satcom.

There is demand for good satellite internet. There is no demand for something more expensive than starlink, aside from government stuff and you need consumers to support it and not be money pit

Exactly: any constellation built with pre-falcon9 rockets might be non-Musk, but it won't even be remotely starlink-like. They'd inevitably aim for orbits higher than "throwaway-LEO" and the much sparser constellations those orbits enable (lines of sight less constrained by horizon) will cause considerably more latency (far from geostationary-bad, but a meaningful quality difference) even if the inherent SNR drawbacks were somehow solved. It seems quite rational for governments to desire a fallback, but it won't ever be more than that and as long as starlink is on the market any hope for significant customer contribution seems unwarranted.

Without rocket parity to f9, it's just hopeless to get meaningful customer contribution as long as starlink exists. At least as long as they don't find some miracle tech to massively extend VLEO lifetimes (solar powered VLEO Bussard jet or something similarly far out), but even with that the numbers required would be virtually unachievable without an f9 equivalent (it's a somewhat crazy project even with the f9!).

They should absolutely go for it, if they consider having a starlink fallback worth the investment, but they should really not base that decision on illusionary hopes for customer contribution.

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