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IRIS²: The EU’s Response to Musk’s Starlink

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Re: IRIS²: The EU’s Response to Musk’s Starlink

#71
post #16

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Europe bashing on HN is so lame. A German start-up developed a working mRNA vaccine the same time an American start-up developed a stupid blood test fraud. You wouldn't hear the end of it if it was the other way round. What big tech came out of the US the past decade? The juicer? If it's about Europe, every quibble is used for sweeping blows, when it's about the US, the failures are all swept under the rug.

"A German start-up developed a working mRNA vaccine the same time"

True, but not very relevant. A continent with 25 per cent of humanity's wealth is expected to produce at least something sometimes.

But just look at the brain drains. How many Nobelists or other important scientists moved from the US to Europe and vice versa? We are losing our most talented people to a better research environment.

There is no shortage of European workers in Google or SpaceX, where the main limiting factor is actually ITAR laws, not lack of interest. How many Americans moved to Germany to work in SAP or to France to work in Arianespace?

Re: IRIS²: The EU’s Response to Musk’s Starlink

#72
post #16

[flagged]

Europe bashing on HN is so lame. A German start-up developed a working mRNA vaccine the same time an American start-up developed a stupid blood test fraud. You wouldn't hear the end of it if it was the other way round. What big tech came out of the US the past decade? The juicer? If it's about Europe, every quibble is used for sweeping blows, when it's about the US, the failures are all swept under the rug.

Thats not a great comparison given Wirecard.

Re: IRIS²: The EU’s Response to Musk’s Starlink

#73
post #4

> This future satellite constellation infrastructure will allow for synergies with private sector to develop commercial services and provide with high-speed internet and communication in all EU territory. Satellite internet isn’t great for speed. Europe is also so densely populated that full 4g coverage is totally doable. I think satellite internet is cool, but it doesn’t serve a real need and I expect this project t…

> Satellite internet isn’t great for speed.

It's great for speed, but not for latency.

> notice that an entire continent has less ambitious goals and merely tries to keep up with one guy

This doesn't have to fully compete with starlink. A working secondary provider is a great goal in itself if the network is independent. Currently the critical military communication in Ukraine depends on how he feels today for example.

On a policy level, there are likely also issues with using a private US company for critical EU communication.

Having a single global provider is never a great idea. It's even worse when it relies on someone like Musk.

Re: IRIS²: The EU’s Response to Musk’s Starlink

#74

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That is just not the case.

Look at companies like AMSL which no one comes even close. It is likely that every device you own has a microchip made with a machine by AMSL. Is it sexy? Is there a narcissistic tweeting CEO? No, but there is inovasion at the highest level.

The mRNA vaccine also came out of the "EU".

What the EU has little off and what you are probably complaining about it throwing money at a hundred things to see what sticks. Those methods cause things like Theranos to spawn.

Rampent capitalism causes people to suffer and die. You may get a few unicorns with some inovation but you can get there without the suffering as well.

Re: IRIS²: The EU’s Response to Musk’s Starlink

#75
post #54

They still haven't finished Galileo yet; with the project seemingly going backwards ever since the British were forced out. How will they deliver yet another moonshot project like this? They don't even possess reusable rocket technology yet to make such a LEO project economically viable.

It's up and running, and like any project like this it's then constantly updated and maintained so "finished" makes no sense

Re: IRIS²: The EU’s Response to Musk’s Starlink

#76

[flagged]

I'm from the US originally and emigrated about 10 years ago; I think you're conflating different aspects of technology. The boom of US tech isn't superior infrastructure, it's that tech is a very lucrative investment vehicle so it gets a ton of attention. (Well, it was anyways, not sure what 2023 is going to do to this)

While I understand what you're saying, I think what you're observing and commenting on is the huge amount of money that is thrown at technologies developed in the US compared to similar technologies developed by an EU nation which don't get the same attention. US tech infrastructure is by no means exceptional. It's good in many places, don't get me wrong, but it's an extremely similar or lesser experience compared to many EU nations (including the ones you mentioned), and a lot more costly for end users.

Even when I lived in Russia for a time, the infrastructure/costs were amazingly better in Russian cities (outside of Moscow and Saint Petersburg even) than in many US cities.

This is not to say everything US == bad everything EU == good; far from it. Instead just try to understand that the main difference between the tech you read about in US that gets millions or billions and the tech in the EU which just stumbles on like any other business is simply the high attention from investors looking for investment vehicles.

Beat for beat, the day to day technology that I used in the US has either an acceptable or better EU-accessible version, and the EU version is often even a bit cheaper.

The big projects like Starlink are extremely subsidized by the US government; it's the US residents paying person like Elon Musk to let him sell them something right back, without having any real control or input over the way that money is spent by Musk and other similar corporations, or even ensuring that everyone has a chance to use the stuff that billions of dollars of their tax dollars are going to. It's an oligarchy that's been fully legalized and approved.

I really don't think that's the direction we want any nation to be taking, as it does _not_ provide good results long term for the people. US broadband is a perfect example for this with the incumbent providers doing everything in their power to offer as little as possible while still technically qualifying for the subsidies so they can pocket the remainder after the bare minimum requirements are met.

Don't misunderstand the high investor attention that US tech companies get as always being great innovation; investors want a good investment vehicle, and that doesn't always mean the vehicle is a worthy and innovative product. It just means it's something that has a way of providing good returns on investments, including short term fads.

Re: IRIS²: The EU’s Response to Musk’s Starlink

#77
post #26
post #4

> This future satellite constellation infrastructure will allow for synergies with private sector to develop commercial services and provide with high-speed internet and communication in all EU territory. Satellite internet isn’t great for speed. Europe is also so densely populated that full 4g coverage is totally doable. I think satellite internet is cool, but it doesn’t serve a real need and I expect this project t…

There are a lot of places with surprisingly poor mobile coverage even inside the Berlin city limits. I think one way Starlink could massively improve the digital infrastructure here is to be a demonstration that it's possible to be better; the existence proofs of other nations doesn't have the same emotional valence as the existence proof of your coworker.

Serving the inside of a big city via satellite internet is ridiculous. Cell towers and fiber are what you want in all cities and towns.

Re: IRIS²: The EU’s Response to Musk’s Starlink

#78
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lets think what came out of the US - social media, big data, adtech, EVs, cloud computing, XaaS, machine learning, military advances.

I'm honestly not sure if this is supposed to be pro or anti USA

Depends on whether you are facing a disinformation campaign on a social network or whether you need to crush Russian armor rolling over the border.

Technology is notoriously two-faced. Or zero-faced if you can't produce it. The medieval people didn't have to worry about Facebook memes influencing the clergy and triggering heresies.

Re: IRIS²: The EU’s Response to Musk’s Starlink

#79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Europe is also so densely populated that full 4g coverage is totally doable. Broadband via fiber (fine, let's save money and use VDSL for the last mile) is totally doable for the population centers. But we can't even manage that reliably at scale. In Germany, mobile internet of any speed gets spotty once you're outside of the cities. It's just a sad state of affairs.

Germany's problem is German, not European. Germany also used to have waiting lists of many months for getting an extra line (+ they were expensive). Apparently, that was a Good Thing because it was because the state monopoly was protected against competition from Evil Capitalism (usually Foreign as well). Allow competition and good things will happen.

> Germany's problem is German, not European.

I'm not sure if you've noticed who's calling the shots in the EU. Germany's problem is the EU's problem.

I often feel like there's a fundamental misunderstanding in German politics which then spreads to EU politics. They make the same basic mistake the Soviets made: believing that people are perfectly rational, don't react to incentives, and will do what's best for everyone if given the chance. Why have competition, you'll just waste resources. If someone says they're not able to work, surely that's true, so just give them money. If we just give billions to academics, surely they'll spend it wisely and get us a first class satellite internet. If we elect someone, it's always wise to give them plenty of power so they can make their job efficiently, there's no way they'd abuse that power. If we establish a bureaucracy, surely they'll focus on being efficient and nobody will try to grow their department beyond necessary just to increase their status.

Re: IRIS²: The EU’s Response to Musk’s Starlink

#80

I don't like putting more junk into LEO than we absolutely have to because it disrupts our space telescopes (which the EU has also invested over 1 billion euro in). I much rather have the funding go to improving land based internet infrastructure.

I'm european and dont like thousands of satelites swirrling around in the sky as well but I'd rather have government-founded satelites for the public benefit than from some way-too-rich sociopath's private company.

Of course - this project would probably not exist without Starlink, so credit where credit is due.

Personally I find it quite sad that we're destroying the night sky in the sense that before these projects people could look in the sky and know that all humans before them had more or less the same sight. Now there are just so many satellites swirling around in your sight. I find that quite sad.

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