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Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

economist.com

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Re: Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

#191

Post by throwaway894345 »

rexpress wrote: post #154
fleddr wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US anti-car narrative often refers to the Netherlands as some kind of beacon of proper public infrastructure, whilst not knowing a damn thing about it. First, let's establish that the Netherlands is a car country. We have 11 million cars on a population of 17 million. On a typical day, 1 million people use public transport. Cars are the norm, not trains or bicycles. Public transport is rarely faster, not even in…

>First, let's establish that the Netherlands is a car country...On a typical day, 1 million people use public transport. Cars are the norm, not trains or bicycles. Anyone visiting a Dutch city can see what a distortion this comment is. The sheer volume of bike traffic on largely safe infrastructure is phenomenal. Imagine if even half of these people took to cars instead, it would be gridlock. Life may be good for Dut…

How is that a distortion? It seems like you’re violently agreeing with the parent that many people bike to work but far, far fewer than the majority (which is essentially what the American anti-car rhetoric suggests).

> Imagine if even half of these people took to cars instead, it would be gridlock.

There are 10 million employed Dutch (Statista) of whom 65% drive (Statista), so an additional half a million would be a 10% traffic increase, which is probably not “gridlock”, but in any case I don’t see how this refutes the original claim that Netherlands is a car country.

Re: Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

#192

Post by hypomanic »

jimbo9991 wrote: post #141

People are really out to lunch if they think this is due to people not wanting cars and preferring public transit. I wish that was the case, but it's 100% because of the dire financial situation.

I was car-free for 8 years despite having plenty of money. The other car-free family on my street was the same. I have three kids and they have two.

Re: Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

#193

Post by leethargo »

CalRobert wrote: post #101

It's been a decade-long journey but my wife and I finally got EU citizenship and are picking where to live (Utrecht and Freiburg are the frontrunners) specifically so our child can have a proper, independent childhood, and not the painfully lonely, infantilizing, ones we had in stroad-infested Californian suburbs. We're not young! But I applaud this development.

Good luck! Be aware that suburbia exists in Germany as well (I'm still stuck in it).

Re: Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

#194

Post by CaptainZapp »

jimbo9991 wrote: post #141

People are really out to lunch if they think this is due to people not wanting cars and preferring public transit. I wish that was the case, but it's 100% because of the dire financial situation.

> I wish that was the case, but it's 100% because of the dire financial situation

Not necessarily so.

I live 2 minutes from two tram lines and two bus lines.

I live 4 minutes from a train station with a train every 15 minutes.

It takes my 12 minutes door to door to the central train station and 25 minutes door to door to a 2nd tier European airport with excellent world wide connections.

I'm a member of a car sharing cooperative with about a dozen cars within 10 minutes walking distance. I don't think that I rented one in the last two years because I just didn't need a car.

And all this has really nothing to do with my financial situation. It's just that owning a car with public transport connections within walking distance would not add to my mobility in any reasonable sense.

Re: Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

#196

Post by HardlyCurious »

Retric wrote: post #97
Ekaros wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is optimal situation. But it does breakdown or be worse with slightly more complicated routes. Like I used to travel from smaller city to bigger city to other big city. And in the end public transport was probably 50% if not longer in time. First 15-20 minutes to station, then 45 minutes with local train. Wait for intercity, ~2 hours and 30 minutes or get lift to destination. Compared to straight 2 hours from do…

Swapping trains can take a while, but until self driving works you can’t do much while driving. And even with self driving simply getting up and stretching, grabbing a bite to eat, or even just going to the bathroom requires you to stop making progress for a while. Driving has several advantages, but getting stuck in traffic is extremely unpleasant in ways that similar delays on other forms of travel don’t really rep…

This is really the selling point of mass transit for me.

But I have a problem. I'm an introvert and I get fatigued by constant human interaction. I also get fatigued by constant distractions. I really benefit from having some breathing space where I can zone out.

Saying it out load makes it sound reckless and inconsistent, doesn't driving require constant attention? But no, somehow I can zone out drive and drive to my destination completely subconsciously, at least if it's a route I know we'll, like on a commute.

I'm 39 now and I have never caused an accident for what that anecdotle evidence means.

My commutes are my decompress time. I can't do anything during them, and if I could, I wouldn't benefit the same way.

Re: Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

#197

Post by [deleted] »

BizarreByte wrote: post #85
narrowtux wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody is talking about taking away cars from people who live outside of cities. Yet this argument always comes up when problems with cars in densely populated areas are discussed.

This probably occurs because people and governments love one size fits all solutions. There’s a good chance any rules about cars made in the city will spill over and cause issues for people in the country, it happens all the time in regards to other things so why not this?

[deleted]

Re: Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

#198

Post by abeppu »

galangalalgol wrote: post #11

The article specifies rich, maybe beacuse, at least in the US, only the rich can afford to live in places where cars aren't strictly necessary? Some choose to live elsewhere anyway, for scenery or privacy, but the poor or even median 60% can't choose an area with a 15 minute walk to necessities. The Seattle walkability map on hn recently highlighted that fairly well I think? I also wonder if it is truly cars or just…

The article jumps from talking about teenagers to talking about people under 40. I think different factors are at play.

Among teens, their basic needs are often already met by their family, teens are less likely to work than a generation ago, and a lot of their interaction is online anyway. Teen physical independence dropped for other reasons and the appeal of cars went with it.

For adults I think you're right about only high income people being able to live in neighborhoods with close amenities, but also reliance on delivery services, Uber/Lyft are also ways that high income lifestyle can make you dependent on cars while not owning one yourself.

Re: Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

#200

Post by nivenkos »

lnsru wrote: post #77
benjaminwootton wrote: post #20

The young are falling out of love with home ownership, cars, dating, drinking etc. I suspect a lack of money is the common factor.

I absolutely share your opinion. There is no money left for a car after paying all the bills in euro inflation zone. 200€ just to own something, another 100€ insurance with maintenance and the insanely expensive fuel on top. Let’s say 150€ when car is used occasionally.

Yeah, the European economy is in complete collapse.

"You will own nothing"...

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