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50% rejection rate for iPhone casings produced in India shows Apple’s challenge

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Re: 50% rejection rate for iPhone casings produced in India shows Apple’s challenge

#91

Post by cactusplant7374 »

eldaisfish wrote: post #68
jen729w wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We're in Australia and after reading that book we'll go out of our way to not buy generics manufactured in India. Weirdly, it doesn't seem like a regulatory requirement to print the country of manufacture on the box. All of our food is clearly labelled but not pharmaceuticals? An odd omission. I speak as someone who worked in India -- Bangalore, in the IT sector -- for 2 years. I loved the place and the people. But f…

the disappointing thing is that India can absolutely dominate the sector and supply cheap generics to poor countries. They have the expertise and supply chains. All while making a tidy profit. Instead, greed and crony capitalism takes over and increasingly, the indian government is getting increasingly involved, reacting to any criticism in a churlish manner. Really sad to see the wasted potential in a country like I…

Why do you suspect it’s cultural?

Re: 50% rejection rate for iPhone casings produced in India shows Apple’s challenge

#92

Post by satvikpendem »

malfist wrote: post #67
blobbers wrote: post #25

Anyone who's read outsourced code can vouch for the similar QC problems. I work with a lot of great Indian software developers; none of them worked IN India itself; they tend to be the ones that are skilled enough to quickly realize they're able to command massively higher wages by leaving India. India, despite it's reputation as a software outsourcing location has never been able to produce exportable quality beside…

I say this as the whitest white man ever, so please correct me if I'm being discriminatory. I understand it's also a culture issue. India has a culture of never telling clients "no" for anything, even if they know they can't do it. So you ask for something insanely complex, and your contractor in India will throw a mountain of buggy code at you. I wouldn't be surprise if that's also the issue here.

I've heard it as Asian cultures in general, being conformist. For example, I've heard the same from Japanese devs who have to save the face of their superiors, and in Chinese manufacturing as well.

Re: 50% rejection rate for iPhone casings produced in India shows Apple’s challenge

#93

Post by reaperducer »

manuelabeledo wrote: post #35
blobbers wrote: post #25

Anyone who's read outsourced code can vouch for the similar QC problems. I work with a lot of great Indian software developers; none of them worked IN India itself; they tend to be the ones that are skilled enough to quickly realize they're able to command massively higher wages by leaving India. India, despite it's reputation as a software outsourcing location has never been able to produce exportable quality beside…

I suspect that most people who have interacted with remote teams based in India, have had the same experiences. I'm honestly surprised that Apple didn't choose Vietnam or Indonesia over India.

I'm honestly surprised that Apple didn't choose Vietnam

There are some Apple products already being made in Vietnam. I believe that some iPhone work is going there soon, as well.

Re: 50% rejection rate for iPhone casings produced in India shows Apple’s challenge

#94

Post by nequo »

kalesh wrote: post #70
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I am an entrepreneur & a small business owner in India. I did a small manufacturing in China & was blown away by their professionalism. The article mentions - `Chinese suppliers had a totally different attitude, aiming to exceed the Cupertino company’s expectations` - this is so true. This varies massively from one CM to the next. If you can get your foot in the door at the higher tier CMs, the professionalism and…

Not my experience. I was working on my clothing startup with initial investment of about ~$30,000 USD. INDIA - Met at least 12-15 manufactures in India (medium to large scale, $1m ARR to $50m ARR). Only a 1-2 of these had any catalogs or samples of different fabric compositions. Most wanted an advance to kick-start the process. Sampling was a total failure with three of these. CHINA - Contacted about 10 manufactures…

Why did you end up going with a Peruvian supplier instead of a Chinese one?

Re: 50% rejection rate for iPhone casings produced in India shows Apple’s challenge

#95

Post by kube-system »

kerpotgh wrote: post #47
blobbers wrote: post #25

Anyone who's read outsourced code can vouch for the similar QC problems. I work with a lot of great Indian software developers; none of them worked IN India itself; they tend to be the ones that are skilled enough to quickly realize they're able to command massively higher wages by leaving India. India, despite it's reputation as a software outsourcing location has never been able to produce exportable quality beside…

Cars are one of India’s larger exports. Cars are definitely manufactured in India- TATA, Mahindra, Maruti etc.

Mahindra is the #1 tractor manufacturer in the world.

Re: 50% rejection rate for iPhone casings produced in India shows Apple’s challenge

#96

Post by reaperducer »

ilamont wrote: post #88
valdiorn wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They've done well in the pharma industry recently, but it's their one major success.

No. There have been years of serious quality problems at certain Indian manufacturers. Here's a case from 10 years ago: During a visit to a facility of leading Indian drugmaker Ranbaxy Laboratories Ltd last year, U.S. inspectors found that a black fiber embedded in a tablet may have been a hair from an employee’s arm, according to documents seen by Reuters. .... The Mohali plant, in the northern state of Punjab, had…

No need to go way back ten years. A recall in the US a couple of weeks ago was because of eye drops made in India.

That said, India does produce massive amounts of pharma for export around the world. Just read the labels on the boxes in the drug stores.

Re: 50% rejection rate for iPhone casings produced in India shows Apple’s challenge

#97

Post by fakedang »

valdiorn wrote: post #52
User23 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The United States and Europe still have the capability to make these casings, but it's "too expensive." I imagine so is Japan for that matter.

When I was looking at machining in China (I built some aluminium guitar prototypes) the cost between European fabricators and China wasn't just significant - it was an order of magnitude. I got a handful of absolutely impeccable prototypes from my Chinese manufacturers, for about 350 USD a piece. The few UK machine shops that even bothered answering my emails and phonecalls quoted about 10-15k per unit.

I'll be honest, pricing in Europe is bonkers for many other sectors too.

We are investing into a drug development project, and had to choose a clinical trial partner. A small no-name European CRO quoted us ~$40 million. An established Indian company with a track record of launching FDA approved products in the US market quoted us $4 million. And they were supposed to be the "marquee" option.

Re: 50% rejection rate for iPhone casings produced in India shows Apple’s challenge

#98

Post by SilverBirch »

kalesh wrote: post #37
satvikpendem wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From what I've heard, China also used to be like that, sending out cheap samples that didn't meet the specification, and the manufacturers there would tell you that they'd do it correctly next time, just for the same thing to happen again. But eventually they were able to do a good job. Give it time, Indian manufacturing is simply not as advanced as China's right now but it will be if enough investment is made.

It's not about being advanced. It's about keeping promises & being honest. It might take a whole generation to fix this.

Overpromising and underdelivering is what you do when you can't meet the expectations and you need to try and get the business anyway. What's the alternative? Honestly promise a product no one wants to buy. Once you've manufactured a billion widgets you no longer need to overpromise and underdeliver. It's very similar to the silicon valley "fake it till you make it" attitude.

Re: 50% rejection rate for iPhone casings produced in India shows Apple’s challenge

#99

Post by reaperducer »

jen729w wrote: post #58
eldaisfish wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would strongly suggest not calling India's pharma industry a success. It is rife with terrible quality and government-sponsored coverups. Here is one book that goes into some detail:Bottle of Lies: Ranbaxy and the Dark Side of Indian Pharma Many children lost their lives in Gambia and Uzbekistan after consuming tainted cough syrup made in India. The worst part is not the error, it is the fact that indian regulators…

We're in Australia and after reading that book we'll go out of our way to not buy generics manufactured in India. Weirdly, it doesn't seem like a regulatory requirement to print the country of manufacture on the box. All of our food is clearly labelled but not pharmaceuticals? An odd omission. I speak as someone who worked in India -- Bangalore, in the IT sector -- for 2 years. I loved the place and the people. But f…

Weirdly, it doesn't seem like a regulatory requirement to print the country of manufacture on the box. All of our food is clearly labelled but not pharmaceuticals?

It's the opposite in the US, for the most part.

Re: 50% rejection rate for iPhone casings produced in India shows Apple’s challenge

#100

Post by tristor »

Unsurprising for anyone that has done business in India. This is not a dig on Indian people, but the society they operate in is incredibly incredibly corrupt, on a scale which is basically unthinkable to anyone who hasn't been directly exposed to it. I cannot imagine doing business of the precision that Apple is trying to achieve in India. There are many other lower precision arrangements that can be worked out in India, but something like an iPhone seems impossible without a complete sea change in how Indian society operates at every level.

Anybody who has done business in India is never surprised by the number of spam, scam boiler rooms, and other nefarious global criminal organizations operating in India. It's all part of the same pervasive corruption within Indian society.

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