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50% rejection rate for iPhone casings produced in India shows Apple’s challenge

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Re: 50% rejection rate for iPhone casings produced in India shows Apple’s challenge

#31

Post by onion2k »

I heard a story about a business that worked with a Chinese chip manufacturer once. They ordered 10,000 of a particular microprocessor and instructed the company that they would accept a maximum of 1 faulty chip in 250.

When the order arrived there were 10,000 chips, and an extra little bag with 40 more chips in it. The packing note said that they'd sent the faulty ones separately but weren't sure why they were needed.

It's likely apocryphal but having worked with some Chinese manufacturers I like to believe it.

Re: 50% rejection rate for iPhone casings produced in India shows Apple’s challenge

#32

Post by satvikpendem »

kalesh wrote: post #21

I am an entrepreneur & a small business owner in India. I did a small manufacturing in China & was blown away by their professionalism. The article mentions - `Chinese suppliers had a totally different attitude, aiming to exceed the Cupertino company’s expectations` - this is so true. In India, most manufacturing companies or businesses are trying to sell what they have or can produce (without any attention to detail…

From what I've heard, China also used to be like that, sending out cheap samples that didn't meet the specification, and the manufacturers there would tell you that they'd do it correctly next time, just for the same thing to happen again. But eventually they were able to do a good job. Give it time, Indian manufacturing is simply not as advanced as China's right now but it will be if enough investment is made.

Re: 50% rejection rate for iPhone casings produced in India shows Apple’s challenge

#33

Post by permo-w »

traceroute66 wrote: post #10
jpgvm wrote: post #4

Thing is this is also still the really basic stuff. It's only going to get worse as they attempt to shift more complicated things. People tend to drastically underestimate the both the scale and sophistication of manufacturing in China. For certain products the only reasonable alternatives to China are going to be South Korea and Japan in the medium term as they are the only other hubs with the required sophisticatio…

> Thing is this is also still the really basic stuff. It's only going to get worse as they attempt to shift more complicated things. Indeed. And stats like that does make you kind of worry about pharmaceuticals where India is something like number two worldwide as supplier of APIs to the global Pharma industry. API = Active Pharmaceutical Ingredient, or typically described as "active ingredient" on the labelling of t…

> Disclaimer: I'm not making claims or insinuations here, I've insufficient knowledge of Pharma to do so. I said "makes you think" for a reason, i.e. pure speculation, probably wrong

I don’t accept this disclaimer. “makes you …” is not a phrase people use when they’re trying to avoid implications or insinuations. the opposite, in fact, so much so that I’d say that it’s probably as often used seriously as it is humorously to mock conspiracy types who might structure an argument like that.

Disclaimer: I’m not suggesting that you’re making a conspiracy theory, or that I even disagree with your comment, just that the disclaimer doesn’t hold water

Re: 50% rejection rate for iPhone casings produced in India shows Apple’s challenge

#34

Post by smoldesu »

qqtt wrote: post #24
jpgvm wrote: post #4

Thing is this is also still the really basic stuff. It's only going to get worse as they attempt to shift more complicated things. People tend to drastically underestimate the both the scale and sophistication of manufacturing in China. For certain products the only reasonable alternatives to China are going to be South Korea and Japan in the medium term as they are the only other hubs with the required sophisticatio…

Do you think Apple is drastically underestimating the scale and sophistication required to move their manufacturing? Do you think Tim Cook made a strategic error here, owing partially to his lack of understanding of the involvement of these processes? There will be growing pains moving and scaling manufacturing anywhere. The fact that there are early obstacles and hurdles does not mean we should simply throw up our h…

> Do you think Tim Cook made a strategic error here

Honestly, yeah. Doubling down on China was a mistake, and now there are no easy outs for the hardware side of things. Apple tried manufacturing the Mac Pro in the US, but I doubt the numbers on that added up in the US' favor.

Correcting course is the right move to make now, but people were right when they called Apple's Chinese supply chain a deal with the devil. Now the devil has come to take their dues, and the first world is scrambling to make sense of it all.

I'm tired of this "4D chess" mindset around Chinese manufacturing. It's bad for everyone but the Chinese government, and you can't pretend like it's a sustainable mindset. Supporting the systematic oppression, sterilization and execution of entire ethnic groups is not worth a new iPhone next year.

Re: 50% rejection rate for iPhone casings produced in India shows Apple’s challenge

#35

Post by manuelabeledo »

blobbers wrote: post #25

Anyone who's read outsourced code can vouch for the similar QC problems. I work with a lot of great Indian software developers; none of them worked IN India itself; they tend to be the ones that are skilled enough to quickly realize they're able to command massively higher wages by leaving India. India, despite it's reputation as a software outsourcing location has never been able to produce exportable quality beside…

I suspect that most people who have interacted with remote teams based in India, have had the same experiences.

I'm honestly surprised that Apple didn't choose Vietnam or Indonesia over India.

Re: 50% rejection rate for iPhone casings produced in India shows Apple’s challenge

#36

Post by valdiorn »

blobbers wrote: post #25

Anyone who's read outsourced code can vouch for the similar QC problems. I work with a lot of great Indian software developers; none of them worked IN India itself; they tend to be the ones that are skilled enough to quickly realize they're able to command massively higher wages by leaving India. India, despite it's reputation as a software outsourcing location has never been able to produce exportable quality beside…

They've done well in the pharma industry recently, but it's their one major success.

Re: 50% rejection rate for iPhone casings produced in India shows Apple’s challenge

#37

Post by kalesh »

satvikpendem wrote: post #32
kalesh wrote: post #21

I am an entrepreneur & a small business owner in India. I did a small manufacturing in China & was blown away by their professionalism. The article mentions - `Chinese suppliers had a totally different attitude, aiming to exceed the Cupertino company’s expectations` - this is so true. In India, most manufacturing companies or businesses are trying to sell what they have or can produce (without any attention to detail…

From what I've heard, China also used to be like that, sending out cheap samples that didn't meet the specification, and the manufacturers there would tell you that they'd do it correctly next time, just for the same thing to happen again. But eventually they were able to do a good job. Give it time, Indian manufacturing is simply not as advanced as China's right now but it will be if enough investment is made.

It's not about being advanced. It's about keeping promises & being honest. It might take a whole generation to fix this.

Re: 50% rejection rate for iPhone casings produced in India shows Apple’s challenge

#38

Post by tnorthcutt »

blobbers wrote: post #25

Anyone who's read outsourced code can vouch for the similar QC problems. I work with a lot of great Indian software developers; none of them worked IN India itself; they tend to be the ones that are skilled enough to quickly realize they're able to command massively higher wages by leaving India. India, despite it's reputation as a software outsourcing location has never been able to produce exportable quality beside…

> There are no cars or electronics, or chip fabs in this country.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tata_Motors

Re: 50% rejection rate for iPhone casings produced in India shows Apple’s challenge

#39

Post by neilv »

My layperson's impression is that Apple has very demanding standards for iPhone manufacturing, and I had some questions:

* Do contracts like this provide good metrics for a manufacturing concern aspiring to that level of capability?

* How transferable are the capabilities needed to make an iPhone casing on-budget with low defect rate? For example, does it get you 1/4 of what you need to make a touchscreen (e.g., logistics management, worker process culture, leadership)?

Re: 50% rejection rate for iPhone casings produced in India shows Apple’s challenge

#40

Post by smoldesu »

satvikpendem wrote: post #32
kalesh wrote: post #21

I am an entrepreneur & a small business owner in India. I did a small manufacturing in China & was blown away by their professionalism. The article mentions - `Chinese suppliers had a totally different attitude, aiming to exceed the Cupertino company’s expectations` - this is so true. In India, most manufacturing companies or businesses are trying to sell what they have or can produce (without any attention to detail…

From what I've heard, China also used to be like that, sending out cheap samples that didn't meet the specification, and the manufacturers there would tell you that they'd do it correctly next time, just for the same thing to happen again. But eventually they were able to do a good job. Give it time, Indian manufacturing is simply not as advanced as China's right now but it will be if enough investment is made.

China's government effectively owns all of those factories. When something goes wrong, they put their hands directly into the machine to fix it.

Hopefully India's government doesn't follow in their footsteps, Apple's Chinese manufacturers have a spotty track record vis-a-vis exploiting executive power.

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