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50% rejection rate for iPhone casings produced in India shows Apple’s challenge

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Re: 50% rejection rate for iPhone casings produced in India shows Apple’s challenge

#21

Post by kalesh »

I am an entrepreneur & a small business owner in India. I did a small manufacturing in China & was blown away by their professionalism. The article mentions - `Chinese suppliers had a totally different attitude, aiming to exceed the Cupertino company’s expectations` - this is so true.

In India, most manufacturing companies or businesses are trying to sell what they have or can produce (without any attention to detail). As a result, false promises & contracts are prevalent. There are no SOP's or any organized sampling process in most Indian companies vs Chinese who keep everything very formal & organized.

I never visited China & the manufacturing went perfect. In India, I personally visited the factories & still could not get the job done. All samples were rejected. Lost money & most importantly time. It's a damn mess. People seriously lack work ethic.

Re: 50% rejection rate for iPhone casings produced in India shows Apple’s challenge

#22

Post by theshrike79 »

jpgvm wrote: post #4

Thing is this is also still the really basic stuff. It's only going to get worse as they attempt to shift more complicated things. People tend to drastically underestimate the both the scale and sophistication of manufacturing in China. For certain products the only reasonable alternatives to China are going to be South Korea and Japan in the medium term as they are the only other hubs with the required sophisticatio…

There is a (in)famous interview with Steve Jobs about why Apple is manufacturing in China.

Paraphrased it went something like "we could fit all experts in $hardware_field in this conference room, but in China we can't fit them in a stadium".

The scale at which China has built up an educated work force is at a staggering scale.

Re: 50% rejection rate for iPhone casings produced in India shows Apple’s challenge

#24

Post by qqtt »

jpgvm wrote: post #4

Thing is this is also still the really basic stuff. It's only going to get worse as they attempt to shift more complicated things. People tend to drastically underestimate the both the scale and sophistication of manufacturing in China. For certain products the only reasonable alternatives to China are going to be South Korea and Japan in the medium term as they are the only other hubs with the required sophisticatio…

Do you think Apple is drastically underestimating the scale and sophistication required to move their manufacturing? Do you think Tim Cook made a strategic error here, owing partially to his lack of understanding of the involvement of these processes?

There will be growing pains moving and scaling manufacturing anywhere. The fact that there are early obstacles and hurdles does not mean we should simply throw up our hands and say "whelp, looks like China is the only option, we have no choice but to stick there!".

Apple is developing manufacturing infrastructure to derisk their supply chain. Because they have 50% rejection rates for iPhone casings at one particular manufacturing facility in India does not really imply anything other than teething issues with scaling up.

The original Financial Times original this blog post is based on fleshes out the issues and obstacles in greater depth IMO and is worth a read:

https://www.ft.com/content/0d70a823-0fba-49ae-a453-2518afcb0...

Re: 50% rejection rate for iPhone casings produced in India shows Apple’s challenge

#25

Post by blobbers »

Anyone who's read outsourced code can vouch for the similar QC problems. I work with a lot of great Indian software developers; none of them worked IN India itself; they tend to be the ones that are skilled enough to quickly realize they're able to command massively higher wages by leaving India.

India, despite it's reputation as a software outsourcing location has never been able to produce exportable quality besides textiles. There are no cars or electronics, or chip fabs in this country.

The author's description of the government being 'bureaucratic' is a nice way of saying corrupt, and certainly has no direct bearing on manufacturing yields. That's simply the way business is done in a largely domestic economy.

Re: 50% rejection rate for iPhone casings produced in India shows Apple’s challenge

#26

Post by trasz3 »

nailer wrote: post #19
jpgvm wrote: post #4

Thing is this is also still the really basic stuff. It's only going to get worse as they attempt to shift more complicated things. People tend to drastically underestimate the both the scale and sophistication of manufacturing in China. For certain products the only reasonable alternatives to China are going to be South Korea and Japan in the medium term as they are the only other hubs with the required sophisticatio…

> People tend to drastically underestimate the both the scale and sophistication of manufacturing in China. Also how little tech workers in India care about what they do. This isn't a racial observation - Indians outside India are just as conscientious as Asians or Europeans are and are not included in this observation. Rather it's a cultural observation that's probably come about as a result of the outsourcing cultu…

>tech workers in India care about what they do

Are you trying to say the Indian tech workers have much more adult attitude to their employment, as opposed to their western friends who are happy to sacrifice themselves ad maiorem corpo gloriam?

Re: 50% rejection rate for iPhone casings produced in India shows Apple’s challenge

#27

Post by ilrwbwrkhv »

There are scams at every single level in the Indian system. Everybody wants a cut and some extra to do their job. It is maybe one of the worst places to manufacture in the world. I know Apple needs to diversify but Vietnam and other such countries might be a better fit. The work ethic is severely lacking in India.

Re: 50% rejection rate for iPhone casings produced in India shows Apple’s challenge

#28

Post by mattboardman »

qqtt wrote: post #24
jpgvm wrote: post #4

Thing is this is also still the really basic stuff. It's only going to get worse as they attempt to shift more complicated things. People tend to drastically underestimate the both the scale and sophistication of manufacturing in China. For certain products the only reasonable alternatives to China are going to be South Korea and Japan in the medium term as they are the only other hubs with the required sophisticatio…

Do you think Apple is drastically underestimating the scale and sophistication required to move their manufacturing? Do you think Tim Cook made a strategic error here, owing partially to his lack of understanding of the involvement of these processes? There will be growing pains moving and scaling manufacturing anywhere. The fact that there are early obstacles and hurdles does not mean we should simply throw up our h…

>Do you think Tim Cook made a strategic error here, owing partially to his lack of understanding of the involvement of these processes?

Appeal to authority is just speculation at the end of the day. It's just as possible a brilliant CEO with tons of supply chain experience made a mistake or was forced into a bad decision.

>The fact that there are early obstacles and hurdles does not mean we should simply throw up our hands and say "whelp, looks like China is the only option, we have no choice but to stick there!".

Is anyone saying that?

>Because they have 50% rejection rates for iPhone casings at one particular manufacturing facility in India does not really imply anything other than teething issues with scaling up.

It does imply at the least that the processes Apple has used in other regions doesn't translate quickly. There are definitely additional questions raised. Is this a labor quality control issue? Procurement? Worse vendors? Or as you speculate, this is all part of the start-up process.

Re: 50% rejection rate for iPhone casings produced in India shows Apple’s challenge

#29

Post by logifail »

Espressosaurus wrote: post #15
logifail wrote: post #7

> This 50 per cent “yield” fares badly compared with Apple’s goal for zero defects Q1: Is Apple QCing everything before shipping to assembly? Q2: Surely quality issues should be the supplier's problem, not [just] Apple's, and hence a zero defects target should be the supplier's goal, not [just] Apple's?

When first qualifying a supplier, I expect IQC to fairly exhaustively test every incoming part. As the supplier gets better at OQC you can start dialing back your IQC. This is all fairly normal for large scale manufacturing in my experience. You want everything to meet spec, but the spec won't cover everything, and especially at the beginning the supplier may or may not even be able to meet spec in volume.

> This is all fairly normal for large scale manufacturing in my experience

Indeed.

So why does the original article claim that the "problem" is due to differing attitudes of Indian vs Chinese suppliers?

EDIT: Wouldn't the "problem" likely also occur if you were to switch from one Chinese supplier to another [completely unrelated] Chinese supplier?

Re: 50% rejection rate for iPhone casings produced in India shows Apple’s challenge

#30

Post by rootusrootus »

nailer wrote: post #19
jpgvm wrote: post #4

Thing is this is also still the really basic stuff. It's only going to get worse as they attempt to shift more complicated things. People tend to drastically underestimate the both the scale and sophistication of manufacturing in China. For certain products the only reasonable alternatives to China are going to be South Korea and Japan in the medium term as they are the only other hubs with the required sophisticatio…

> People tend to drastically underestimate the both the scale and sophistication of manufacturing in China. Also how little tech workers in India care about what they do. This isn't a racial observation - Indians outside India are just as conscientious as Asians or Europeans are and are not included in this observation. Rather it's a cultural observation that's probably come about as a result of the outsourcing cultu…

I've observed that as well, with our local Indian developers as compared with the ones in India itself. The effort to come to the US acts as a filter. I've seen the same kind of filter with regards to Mexico. Go to Mexico and they operate on "Mexican Time" (their words, not mine). But when it comes to manual labor in the US, who works the hardest? Mexicans, almost every time. The difference in motivation is stark.
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