Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Health concerns grow in East Palestine, Ohio, after train derailment

npr.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

401–410 of 607 posts

Re: Health concerns grow in East Palestine, Ohio, after train derailment

#401

Post by legitster »

notthemessiah wrote: post #384
legitster wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It’s an ecological disaster with potentially significant health concerns Counterpoint, we deal with hazardous chemical spills all the time, especially when you factor in all of the semi crashes that don't make headlines. There is a very robust set of clean up procedures set aside for these chemicals ahead of time, and they are being followed. What we are watching now are the automatic precautions of our system kick…

You must live on another planet if you think we have a good record on cleaning up hazardous spills, in an era where oil wells that can't be plugged continue to bleed into our oceans. Most cleanup operations are matters of triage, we almost never are able to undo the damage, in the best case scenarios, ecosystems are able to recover over time, but in many places, ecological damage might as well be permanent. Entropy i…

I mean, I live near the Hanford nuclear site. Despite the unseen horrors this patch of land has seen, people continue to grow food in the area and live to ripe old ages.

For sure, I don't really know how much continued damage the gulf spill might have caused. But I have been swimming in the Caribbean since the spill and didn't particularly worry about it anymore at the time.

Re: Health concerns grow in East Palestine, Ohio, after train derailment

#402

Post by throwaheyy »

Workaccount2 wrote: post #364
badrequest wrote: post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

There probably already is 250,000 gallons (if it was 10 cars and all 10 converted perfectly to HCl, and all of it went into the water supply) into a water table of, lets be conservative with 10 billion gallons, is 0.00002% concentration or .02ppm Compare this to your stomach, which has an hydrochloric acid concentration of 5000ppm. So yes, I would have no issue with it. All the water you drink mixes with a much highe…

That amount of hydrochloric acid doesn't just magically dilute evenly into the water table in one instant.

Re: Health concerns grow in East Palestine, Ohio, after train derailment

#403

Post by notch898a »

aqme28 wrote: post #343
notch898a wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you drive a vehicle knowing it is unsafe shouldn't you refuse? Any other vehicle and we would hold the worker accountable for not refusing such a negligent order. The news articles about the rail workers complaining it was unsafe seems to show they are complicit as they continued operating in unsafe conditions anyway.

> If you drive a vehicle knowing it is unsafe shouldn't you refuse? So a strike then? You’re literally describing what they tried to do.

In a way but legally they aren't identical. Conditions:

- Where possible, you have asked the employer to eliminate the danger, and the employer failed to do so; and

- You refused to work in "good faith." This means that you must genuinely believe that an imminent danger exists; and

- A reasonable person would agree that there is a real danger of death or serious injury; and

- There isn't enough time, due to the urgency of the hazard, to get it corrected through regular enforcement channels, such as requesting an OSHA inspection.

Note the MOA I cited above shows the railroad enforcement has an interlocking agreement with OSHA to this effect that explains this. [0]

You're also instructed to remain on the work site which is a key difference from a "strike." You may not be protected if you say ask for more pay or sick days, so if they weren't showing up to work or asked for that it would really muddy the waters. It's my understanding the "strike" was planned days in advance so it wasn't an immediate response to imminent danger (if it was, should have just been done immediately instead it looks premeditated) and the "strike" asked for stuff like better pay or days off which then made it non-protected.

If you truly follow all of the bullets above then it's protected and the anti-strike order isn't really valid as it's considered protected stop-work activity rather than a strike.

Note: not legal advice

[0] https://www.osha.gov/laws-regs/mou/2012-07-16

Re: Health concerns grow in East Palestine, Ohio, after train derailment

#404

Post by thekingshorses »

yieldcrv wrote: post #43
Kyragem wrote: post #12

[flagged]

Aside from the irony, the democrat party will make way more friends if they or their campaign strategy acknowledged that people vote on way more causes than whatever the party is saying makes you a better person. The senate is 50-50, there's never a wave. Time to try something else.

The senate is 50-50 because each state gets 2 seats. Votes are not 50-50.

Re: Health concerns grow in East Palestine, Ohio, after train derailment

#405

Post by burnished »

xadhominemx wrote: post #241
shkkmo wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no language in that link that limits the risks to long term exposure. If you follow the OSHA link on that page, you'll see that the ERPG-3 is 20000 ppm; that's the level at which some people will start facing lethal complications after an hour of exposure. If you're gonna argue that there are no consequences to acute exposure, you gonna have to provide some sources.

20,000 ppm! Do you understand how high that is??

High enough you could start using percentages!

Re: Health concerns grow in East Palestine, Ohio, after train derailment

#406

Post by TylerE »

gowings97 wrote: post #391
TylerE wrote: post #368

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The idea is that you stop quicker, before the axle actually fails.

So the train initiated a stop, the axle broke, and they did not stop in time? Why did they initiate the stop? First I've heard of this. *Update - NTSB is saying it was bearing failure - https://www.ntsb.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/NR20230214.as... ctrl+f for 'axle' or 'brake' from the NTSB statement - zero results

What do you think the bearing is containing?

Re: Health concerns grow in East Palestine, Ohio, after train derailment

#407

Post by thekingshorses »

TallGuyShort wrote: post #38
Kyragem wrote: post #12

[flagged]

I mean I'm no Trump fan, but Ohio is also notoriously a swing state. Not sure it's remotely fair or relevant to talk about a fluctuating margin of voters as characterizing a state.

Ohio is not a swing state.

Year 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 00 01 02 03 04 05 06 07 08 09 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23

Governor R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R D D D D R R R R R R R R R R R R R

Senate R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R

House D D D R R R R R R R R R R R R R R D D R R R R R R R R R R R R R

https://ballotpedia.org/Party_control_of_Ohio_state_governme...

Re: Health concerns grow in East Palestine, Ohio, after train derailment

#408

Post by pathartl »

s1artibartfast wrote: post #399
pathartl wrote: post #390

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely. I live in a completely different state and I'm pretty unaffected by this whole tragedy/negligence. I could sit and speculate about what actually happened, but what does that do other than spend energy on something that I'm not actually involved with?

Yeah, There is something to be said about genuine curiosity, but in the face of a emotionally changed misinformation blizzard the best option is to take a step back. If you decide you are curious and actually want to care about railroad safety, dont react to the current crisis, "hit the books" and read some actually informative material about past events.

100%. It's important to note that doing so also doesn't make you complicit. I have a general disdain for the "do your own research" type of people because often they're not trying to seek out actual education, they're just trying to bolster some sort of preconception they have.

Re: Health concerns grow in East Palestine, Ohio, after train derailment

#409

Post by u8080 »

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dioxins_and_dioxin-like_compou...

>PCDD/F-compounds were never synthesized for any purpose, except for small quantities for scientific research.[12] Small amounts of PCDD/Fs are formed whenever organics, oxygen and chlorine are available at suitable temperatures.[1] This is augmented by metal catalysts such as copper. The optimal temperature range is 400 °C (752 °F) to 700 °C (1,292 °F). This means that formation is highest when organic material is burned in less-than-optimal conditions such as open fires, building fires, domestic fireplaces, and poorly operated and/or designed solid waste incinerators.[3] Historically, municipal and medical waste incineration was the most important source of PCDD/Fs.

Re: Health concerns grow in East Palestine, Ohio, after train derailment

#410

Post by [deleted] »

nabla9 wrote: post #330
ly3xqhl8g9 wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A tad of Yes, Minister wisdom [1]: "The Four Stage Strategy: Stage 1. Nothing is going to happen. Stage 2. Something may happen, but we should do nothing about it. Stage 3. Maybe we should do something about it, but there's nothing we can do. Stage 4. Maybe there was something we could have done, but it's too late now." [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nSXIetP5iak

Legislation passed under President Obama required trains carrying hazardous flammable materials to have ECP brakes. The law was rescinded in 2017 by the Trump administration.

[deleted]
Post reply on HN