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Health concerns grow in East Palestine, Ohio, after train derailment

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241–250 of 607 posts

Re: Health concerns grow in East Palestine, Ohio, after train derailment

#241
post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don’t chide me. Parent comment is ridiculous and harmful fearmongering and hyperbole. Read your own link - there is no mention of carcinogenicity* from acute exposure and environmental a biological persistence is very low. I would be more concerned if I spent a career in a vinyl chloride production facility without proper ppe.

There is no language in that link that limits the risks to long term exposure. If you follow the OSHA link on that page, you'll see that the ERPG-3 is 20000 ppm; that's the level at which some people will start facing lethal complications after an hour of exposure. If you're gonna argue that there are no consequences to acute exposure, you gonna have to provide some sources.

20,000 ppm! Do you understand how high that is??

Re: Health concerns grow in East Palestine, Ohio, after train derailment

#242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> don't see a lot of people talking about this disaster getting no coverage Oh my god this is the only thing people are talking about. Please don’t do this. Let’s talk about the actual disaster instead of spinning up another useless whirlpool of meta-debate.

The NYT does not have this barely at all. There should be a giant picture of the mushroom cloud on their front page to reflect the severity (potential or real) of the situation. It's shameful.

Wow you're right, only mention is way at the bottom of the main page, just a title "A Train Carrying Toxic Chemicals Derailed in Ohio. Here’s What to Know." No picture, not even a mini-summary like some of the other links.

Re: Health concerns grow in East Palestine, Ohio, after train derailment

#243
post #67

I've been seeing content on Tiktok where even 100 miles away they're seeing small dead fish which is apparently according to the folks making the videos a massive red flag. In general I grow super weary of companies and the government downplaying these sorts of things. It seems to constantly follow the pattern of people saying "It's not that bad" and then only years later do we actually see the horrific health and en…

A tad of Yes, Minister wisdom [1]:

  "The Four Stage Strategy:
  Stage 1. Nothing is going to happen.
  Stage 2. Something may happen, but we should do nothing about it.
  Stage 3. Maybe we should do something about it, but there's nothing we can do.
  Stage 4. Maybe there was something we could have done, but it's too late now." 
[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nSXIetP5iak

Re: Health concerns grow in East Palestine, Ohio, after train derailment

#244
post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The ultimate problem is the breakdown in trust of our institutions to get this right - the overriding incentives are wrong at every level. Burning a product because it would have otherwise needed to be recovered and transported under pressure seems like exactly the kind of amoral tradeoff a company would take, not particularly caring about the combustion products apart from what they can legally get away with. As far…

> Burning a product because it would have otherwise needed to be recovered and transported under pressure I don't think that's correct. It was leaking. No recovery was feasible. The options at hand were "let it leak" or "burn it", and burning it was the right choice. Now, maybe you don't believe that. And of course I believe it on faith. But real chemical engineers are making these decisions, not yahoos on HN. And th…

But real chemical engineers are making these decisions

Are they? What proof do you have?

Personally, I've seen management and bean counters override engineers constantly, so I tend to assume that's standard.

Re: Health concerns grow in East Palestine, Ohio, after train derailment

#245
post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> can make people dizzy and drowsy LMFAO vinyl chloride is a multi-organ carcinogen...its literally one of the quickest ways to stage 4 right up there with Benzene exposure. phosgene was also part of the release when Ohio decided a "controlled burn" of the vinyl chloride was somehow a good idea. the plume could be seen from commercial flights. honest to god the damage control media outlets are attempting in the midst…

Our fearless US press is too scared to have on-site staff to cover the largest ecological land-based disaster since Three Mile Island. Or they've been told by the regime it's a non-issue? Not sure which is worse, but the outcome is what you see before you; back page coverage a week after the incident. Barely a blurb. Yes, these things take time to fully investigate. Where are the daily updates from the EPA though? Wh…

Before you mock the press maybe take a look at how they are being treated in Ohio. This is from a press conference given by the governor last week.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQMLxBpiSu8

Re: Health concerns grow in East Palestine, Ohio, after train derailment

#246
post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are correct about that, but it's also worth noting that there's also no point listening to a corporate press release that's telling you everything is fine, either, because we don't put press officers in prison for lying.

We also usually don't have environmental professionals also working as press officers. If the press person even consulted with an environmental professional, the content has been filtered by both their lack of domain knowledge and their desire to put a good spin on things.

I will say the same thing about an environmental professional on the company payroll.

The problem I'm concerned about isn't ignorance, it is cynical CYA-ism and a giant conflict of interest.

You need a culturally-trusted institution to handle this sort of thing. I am not sure Ohio currently has one that can handle this, so I expect to not know anything until the lawsuits settle over the next decade.

Re: Health concerns grow in East Palestine, Ohio, after train derailment

#247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don’t chide me. Parent comment is ridiculous and harmful fearmongering and hyperbole. Read your own link - there is no mention of carcinogenicity* from acute exposure and environmental a biological persistence is very low. I would be more concerned if I spent a career in a vinyl chloride production facility without proper ppe.

> Don’t chide me. Parent comment is ridiculous and harmful fearmongering and hyperbole. Read your own link - there is no mention of harm from acute exposure and environmental an biological persistence is very low. Reading the Wikipedia link it's not so clear if only continuous exposure elevates cancer risk. However it also lists significant acute effects: > Prior to 1974, workers were commonly exposed to 1,000 ppm vi…

There were no severe acute effects - there were no hospitalizations, the vast majority of the vinyl chloride was intentionally burned, and the little that remains has very low environmental or biological persistence.

Re: Health concerns grow in East Palestine, Ohio, after train derailment

#248

Before everyone loses there mind, because this story has oddly been on blast 2 weeks after the incident: VC is a gas a room temperature. None of the VC cars were ruptured in the crash. They were vented and ignited by workers to avoid explosion. Burning VC produces carbon oxides, HCl, phosgene, and formaldehyde. HCl, Phosgene become hydrochloric acid in the atmosphere. The total amount of hydrochloric acid this could…

So how do you explain the dead fish, chickens, and people with rashes etc.?

Because the accident released a ton of nasty chemicals in one spot. However they are pretty volatile and naturally dissipate. If you see recent pictures from the crash site, nobody is wearing PPE and the EPA has deemed the area as safe to be in.

Re: Health concerns grow in East Palestine, Ohio, after train derailment

#249

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I mean thats being pushed onto the Chinese domestic population, probably to drown out any coverage of the balloons for them. Maybe its bleeding over to US media but I suspect its more propaganda for them than a concerted propaganda effort for foreign audiences.

Re: Health concerns grow in East Palestine, Ohio, after train derailment

#250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The dose makes the poison

[flagged]

> For vinyl chloride 250ppm for 4 hours is enough to give you tumors.

No it’s not! You’ve completely made that up.

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