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Let Teenagers Sleep

scientificamerican.com

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Re: Let Teenagers Sleep

#151

Post by jltsiren »

marginalia_nu wrote: post #66
jobs_throwaway wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its more than just rebelliousness. Teens' circadian rhythms are naturally shifted towards falling asleep later in the evening and waking up later in the morning.

The cicadian rhytm doesn't actually know what the clock on your wall says, only when you eat and get daylight. A late cicadian rhytm is functionally equivalent with poor sleep hyhiene.

And when other people are active. It seems to be fairly common that night owls need an hour or two of their own time after most other people have gone to sleep, or at least have stopped bothering them.

Re: Let Teenagers Sleep

#152

Post by nsxwolf »

_yb2s wrote: post #148

I was a nerdy, awkward kid with a lot of social anxiety, that experienced a lot of bullying and hazing at school. I would stay up all night playing on the computer, and just sleep in class during school. At home I would draw the blinds and stay in my messy room alone, in the dark. I was overweight, had bad acne, and had no energy. I was in a lot of pain, and felt like absolute shit, but nobody seemed to understand or…

Weird did I write this?

Re: Let Teenagers Sleep

#153

Post by [deleted] »

avgcorrection wrote: post #93

Pet peeve of mine: some older adults are proud that they get up early. And that’s OK in isolation. The problem though is that older adults rule society moreso than younger adults, and certainly compared to teenagers. So for many older adults it feels natural to go to bed early and to get up early. But then we as a society confuse that with universal “good behavior”/good character, so everyone has to dance to that tun…

[deleted]

Re: Let Teenagers Sleep

#154

Post by jameshart »

lolinder wrote: post #77
jameshart wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The sequencing in districts where high schools start earliest, then middle schools, then elementary feels backwards to me though. Elementary school parents who have jobs to get to wind up needing preschool care to fill that gap between their departure time and school start - high school age siblings aren’t even available to cover. Late elementary school drop off times impact parents’ options for work and commuting. H…

The staggering works best for the return from school. There are 2-3 hours at the end of the day where school is out but mom's not home yet, and having the high schooler finished by the time the 3rd grader is out means they can fill in that gap.

Elementary age kids whose parents work are going to need afterschool care. I think that’s inevitable, and honestly solvable. Teenage siblings are a fairly limited part of that solution.

I think forcing all the additional logistical complexity and cost of pre-school-day care is an accidental and unnecessary layer though.

Re: Let Teenagers Sleep

#155

Post by zip1234 »

yamtaddle wrote: post #24
tptacek wrote: post #7

One big reason this shift isn't happening is that it creates coordination problems: for many families, everyone leaves for school at the same time, so if you move grade 9 forward an hour, you have to do the same with grade 4 to get any benefit; the 9th grader is taking the 4th grader to school. That problem stopped this shift dead recently where I live.

It is heavily resisted by sports parents, especially. They like the extra afternoon time after school that an early start provides. It's one of the main reasons I've seen these kinds of proposals shot down before it could really get going, locally. > everyone leaves for school at the same time, so if you move grade 9 forward an hour, you have to do the same with grade 4 to get any benefit; the 9th grader is taking th…

Sports have become way too important in high school. In addition to bad ideas about start times, site selection for schools based on having huge amounts of land for sports fields means far away schools instead of being centrally located near a lot of people so students can walk to school easily.

Re: Let Teenagers Sleep

#156

Post by xupybd »

fdgsdfogijq wrote: post #17

As a teenager I was diagnosed with "ADD". Very intelligent, but unable to focus or complete assignments. My life habits were carb heavy unhealthy food (from the cafeteria), soda, lack of sleep due to long school commute, not much exercise As an adult, I eat no carbs, all meat and vegetables, I work from home and sleep in as far as I need every night. My thinking is laser sharp. They tried to medicate me with all sort…

My high school math teacher told me I wouldn't make it to university.

I ended up with a math heavy engineering degree. First class honours.

I'm home schooling my kids . They will do better with their parents as teachers. My friends have done it and their kids were academically ready for university years before their peers.

Re: Let Teenagers Sleep

#157

Post by ClumsyPilot »

Its a common misconception that the goal of Education System is to educate. It's not, and the system will never accept 'improvements' that run contrary to it's purpose.

In actuality education system serves four purposes:

One: make both parents avaliable for the job market. For that it must supervise children during work hours, to make sure they aren't getting in trouble, drugs, or worst of all, into politics and protest

Two - They must habituate little wild chimps into highly unnatural behaviour. Wake up early, commute into arbitrary location, sit in one place for hours on end, stare into paper, whiteboard or screen, perform meaningless tasts tasks that have no meaning to your life. Thats your whole life.

If you don't ease people into this gradually, you run out of psycaotrists.

Three - grade people into quality batches, based off their punctuality and ability to perform meaningless tasks to arbitrary and meaningless quality standards

Four - because the management has gone trhough the same system of educations, the pupils must learn to read through poorly worded vague instructions and understand what their superior actually wants to see, even though they are not capable of expressing it clearly. Poorly worded exam papers serve as good training.

Re: Let Teenagers Sleep

#158

Post by kzrdude »

staunton wrote: post #31
saurik wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can just ask Google for the typical high school (noting that the term for such schooling can drift) hours in another country. I chose Spain, and it says 9-5 with a 2 hour break for lunch in the middle. Some of the sources say 8:30. Nothing says earlier than that. This article, in contrast, says it required this argument to even get some schools here to compromise on 8:30, and that 9 was the recommendation.

Spain has an absurd timezone though

Spain is just an hour off compared to the sun, comparing to countries close like UK (same longitude, 1 hr time diff)

Re: Let Teenagers Sleep

#159

Post by ck425 »

saurik wrote: post #6
lr4444lr wrote: post #3

I've gotta ask: is this really such a big problem in other countries? If not, are they starting school later? How are the successful ones dealing with it if not that way?

You can just ask Google for the typical high school (noting that the term for such schooling can drift) hours in another country. I chose Spain, and it says 9-5 with a 2 hour break for lunch in the middle. Some of the sources say 8:30. Nothing says earlier than that. This article, in contrast, says it required this argument to even get some schools here to compromise on 8:30, and that 9 was the recommendation.

All the high schools I know of in the UK start at 9am. Never heard of any starting earlier, though private schools might be different.

Re: Let Teenagers Sleep

#160

Post by krolden »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #89
krolden wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ofcouse. however they may have been misguided to think their families would benefit from both parents working while it was actually a detriment to their family in the end. Again, not saying women should t be able to work like anyone else, I'm saying having g both parents have to go to work does not benefit the family unit as they hoped. Especially since women are paid nearly half as much as men across nearly every in…

Who is “they”, and why do you presume “they” pushed for women being able to work because it would benefit families? I want women to be able to work because I want the women in my life to not be caught under the thumb of an abuser. If it harms families somehow, that is a separate problem, with separate solutions that do not have anything to do with restricting the independence of women. >Especially since women are pai…

"They" in this context are the people who benefit from an increased labor pool (capitalists, who want lower wages for everyone) and those who thought it was done for their benefit.

>This is not true when comparing the price of the same labor offered by a man or woman.

Okay, maybe not HALF, but you can't argue with the gender wage gap. Men make ~20% more than women.

https://www.dol.gov/agencies/wb/data/occupations

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