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Military shoots down another high-altitude object, over Lake Huron: officials

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Re: Military shoots down another high-altitude object, over Lake Huron: officials

#551

Post by georgeg23 »

Johnny555 wrote: post #334
moose_man wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China could do the same thing if they wanted. That isn't a good excuse to violate national airspace. Maybe they want to intercept cell phone data.

Maybe they want to intercept cell phone data. If they wanted low key interception of civilian terrestrial radio signals, seems like it would be better to just rent a Uhaul or RV, load it up with radio gear, and drive it across the country.

Low Earth Orbit satellites of the US are 100% intercepting global cell phone data and geo locating their source. Plenty of companies are even building direct cell phone service from satellite to the ground, including SpaceX.

Re: Military shoots down another high-altitude object, over Lake Huron: officials

#552

Post by georgeg23 »

krisoft wrote: post #528
wkat4242 wrote: post #450

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would the Russians laugh at that? They did this themselves. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dnepr_(rocket)

They were not laughing because it was an impossible idea. They were laughing because they have seen an opportunity to part a rich person from his money.

Or laughing because it was absurd, Griffin was CIA. The US had just left the Anti Ballistic Missile Treaty, and so it was obvious to everyone they wanted to develop low cost launch for a Brilliant Pebbles reboot. Now it's finally happening.

Re: Military shoots down another high-altitude object, over Lake Huron: officials

#553

Post by fooblaster »

m4jor wrote: post #424
lost_tourist wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I highly doubt is the US government doesn't know what they do, it's just the public that doesn't know.

I'd reckon this. The US government knows exactly what is going on up there at all times and most likely has the most advanced spying satellites and capabilities out of all countries. The NRO has been doing this since the 60s! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Reconnaissance_Office >In 2012 the agency donated two space telescopes to NASA. Despite being stored unused, the instruments are superior to the Hubble Spa…

It is highly unlikely that you can see a coin on the ground from LEO, given the size of the telescope and the laws of physics[1].

Assuming a great number of things, a larger than Hubble 3 meter aperture, 200km orbit, red 750nm light, zero atmospheric distortion, the resolving power cannot be better than 6.1 centimeter resolution.

tan(750e-9/31.22)200000

= 0.061

If you want the best possible example of NRO's capabilities, the best example in recent memory is when trump unintentionally disclosed them with the highest resolution satellite image I personally have ever seen [2]

[1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angular_resolution

[2] https://www.npr.org/2019/09/05/758038714/can-president-trump...

Re: Military shoots down another high-altitude object, over Lake Huron: officials

#554

Post by ekanes »

mcv wrote: post #497
dsego wrote: post #491

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't forget the brave Dutch battalion that protected the civilians of Srebrenica in the secure UN enclave, oh wait, they didn't, they handed them off to Serb forces to be executed.

It was a badly thought out mission that was handed to the wrong unit and didn't receive any of the support it needed. There's no way a light infantry battalion could have defended Srebrenica from Mladic's army. It was theatre based on the hope that Mladic wouldn't attack. While it was a particularly poor showing for a UN mission, and badly handled at every possible level, I don't think it's comparable raping children…

All of that might be true, but sometimes, especially if you're a soldier, the right thing to do is die trying.

Re: Military shoots down another high-altitude object, over Lake Huron: officials

#555

Post by georgeg23 »

aflag wrote: post #533
georgeg23 wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no agreed altitude. > can China shoot down one of US’ low orbit satellites saying it flew over its airspace? These balloons beg that question.... The first one was even made to look like a satellite.

I think it'd be hard to argue that something that's no even in orbit is not in a country's airspace.

Low Earth satellites also need continuous active thrust/lift to maintain orbit because of the air drag. At dispense Starlink satellites come back in 1-2 days without thrusters.

Re: Military shoots down another high-altitude object, over Lake Huron: officials

#556

Post by NoGravitas »

King-Aaron wrote: post #297

So my thoughts: 1. Are we just seeing more of these things now, due to the US broadening the scope of their radar filtering, and there were always this number of things floating around and now they're just more aware of them? 2. Has something changed in the upper atmosphere/jet stream that's catching balloons that would have previously blown elsewhere, and are now going over the US by accident? 3. Is some really big…

Pretty sure a lot of it is just to make sure "China Bad" doesn't drop out of the news cycle.

Re: Military shoots down another high-altitude object, over Lake Huron: officials

#557

Post by mcv »

ekanes wrote: post #554
mcv wrote: post #497

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was a badly thought out mission that was handed to the wrong unit and didn't receive any of the support it needed. There's no way a light infantry battalion could have defended Srebrenica from Mladic's army. It was theatre based on the hope that Mladic wouldn't attack. While it was a particularly poor showing for a UN mission, and badly handled at every possible level, I don't think it's comparable raping children…

All of that might be true, but sometimes, especially if you're a soldier, the right thing to do is die trying.

You want to condemn soldiers to death because everybody else abandoned them?

Re: Military shoots down another high-altitude object, over Lake Huron: officials

#558

Post by ncallaway »

megous wrote: post #540
ncallaway wrote: post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This seems like a bad faith twisting of the original question and response. The original question was about a balloon filled with a dangerous substance, not civilian air traffic. Civilian air traffic is regulated by the Chicago convention, and shooting it down would be undoubtedly be the responsibility of the nation shooting it down. The difference is largely one of consent. Nations have the right to control what hap…

Aside from the fact that the person releasing the baloon might not be a signatory and thus bound by the convention... "Article 5: The aircraft of states, other than scheduled international air services, have the right to make flights across state's territories and to make stops without obtaining prior permission." Seems like you don't need permission for a flyover using a baloon because it's not a scheduled internati…

Article 8 clearly distinguishes a balloon from a civilian passenger aircraft.

“No aircraft capable of being flown without a pilot shall be flown without a pilot over the territory of a contracting State without special authorization by that State and in accordance with the terms of such authorization. Each contracting State undertakes to insure that the flight of such aircraft without a pilot in regions open to civil aircraft shall be so controlled as to obviate danger to civil aircraft.”

Separately, Article 3 rules out a state from playing “I’m not touching you” games with a balloon:

“No state aircraft of a contracting State shall fly over the territory of another State or land thereon without authorization by special agreement or otherwise, and in accordance w ~ t hthe terms thereof.”

Re: Military shoots down another high-altitude object, over Lake Huron: officials

#560

Post by ChuckNorris89 »

dilyevsky wrote: post #559
ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #503

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes they do, in Eastern Europe.

I meant europe that is still reachable by plane

Huh? What's stopping anyone to reach Romania by plane? Or Bulgaria? Or Hungary? Or Slovakia?

Or was it a joke I'm not American enough to understand?

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