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Military shoots down another high-altitude object, over Lake Huron: officials

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Re: Military shoots down another high-altitude object, over Lake Huron: officials

#491

Post by dsego »

handedness wrote: post #187
gambiting wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>Also the UN is an absolute joke UN is literally just a forum for countries to meet and discuss matters. Nothing more nothing less. I have no idea why people expect UN to take action, when UN is explicitly not an organisation for taking any actions.

The UN is certainly something more than that, and not literally just a forum. They have an active duty peacekeeping force of approximately 81K people. While that's similar in size to the active duty forces from a nation like a Peru or Chile, the Blue Helmets have had a de facto quasi-blanket immunity when committing war crimes, and have some pretty horrifying history in places like Central Africa. For example: "Consi…

Don't forget the brave Dutch battalion that protected the civilians of Srebrenica in the secure UN enclave, oh wait, they didn't, they handed them off to Serb forces to be executed.

Re: Military shoots down another high-altitude object, over Lake Huron: officials

#492

Post by dsego »

themitigating wrote: post #210
handedness wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The UN is certainly something more than that, and not literally just a forum. They have an active duty peacekeeping force of approximately 81K people. While that's similar in size to the active duty forces from a nation like a Peru or Chile, the Blue Helmets have had a de facto quasi-blanket immunity when committing war crimes, and have some pretty horrifying history in places like Central Africa. For example: "Consi…

"the Blue Helmets have had a de facto quasi-blanket immunity when committing war crimes, and have some pretty horrifying history" First, I don't think calling them "blue helmets" has the negative connotation you think it does. Second. What's the difference between the UN peacekeepers and any other army? All have a mixed history and I'm pretty sure have let's say a high amount of immunity. People do bad things, especi…

During the balkan wars in the 90s people would jokingly call them "smurfs".

Re: Military shoots down another high-altitude object, over Lake Huron: officials

#493

Post by dx034 »

I always wondered how countries control their airspace to detect foreign objects. Wouldn't these balloons show up similar to birds? Or do they have methods to distinguish birds from other objects of a similar size/radar profile? And if so, couldn't foreign military build "fake birds" that look similar?

Re: Military shoots down another high-altitude object, over Lake Huron: officials

#494

Post by dx034 »

gambiting wrote: post #153
localplume wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Surveillance satellites are very different to directly flying this equipment into US airspace, including the fact that this equipment could hold paylods other than ISR. Not to mention this comment implies China does not have equivalent spy satellites, which it does. Also the UN is an absolute joke. That article links has China and Russia complaining about the West being aggressors so honestly its kinda BS. Also forge…

>>Also the UN is an absolute joke UN is literally just a forum for countries to meet and discuss matters. Nothing more nothing less. I have no idea why people expect UN to take action, when UN is explicitly not an organisation for taking any actions.

And they are able to get leaders/delegates from nearly all countries in a room regularly. That alone can be crucial.

Re: Military shoots down another high-altitude object, over Lake Huron: officials

#495

Post by flakeoil »

arwineap wrote: post #446
localplume wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Surveillance satellites are very different to directly flying this equipment into US airspace, including the fact that this equipment could hold paylods other than ISR. Not to mention this comment implies China does not have equivalent spy satellites, which it does. Also the UN is an absolute joke. That article links has China and Russia complaining about the West being aggressors so honestly its kinda BS. Also forge…

I'm failing to understand how balloons are different from satellites, save for altitude; those sats could be carrying payloads other than ISR as well.

I guess a balloon could drop bombs.

A balloon could also be in the way for airplanes. A balloon could also drop its payload, on purpose or by accident. The recent balloons have been reported to carry a load the size of up to several buses so I guess if that falls to ground it could cause quite some damage.

Not sure satellites can shoot missiles or drop bombs that could hit earth in any effective manner.

Re: Military shoots down another high-altitude object, over Lake Huron: officials

#496

Post by dx034 »

hatsunearu wrote: post #345
Johnny555 wrote: post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe they want to intercept cell phone data. If they wanted low key interception of civilian terrestrial radio signals, seems like it would be better to just rent a Uhaul or RV, load it up with radio gear, and drive it across the country.

sounds slow and illegal, whereas orbital collection is basically maintenance free and basically legal

As long as you are in airspace and not in space (and those balloons weren't), it's not legal to violate airspace and wiretap signals without permission. So U-Haul wouldn't be much different. And the balloon was very slow as well, at least a truck you can drive and park exactly where you need it.

Re: Military shoots down another high-altitude object, over Lake Huron: officials

#497

Post by mcv »

dsego wrote: post #491
handedness wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The UN is certainly something more than that, and not literally just a forum. They have an active duty peacekeeping force of approximately 81K people. While that's similar in size to the active duty forces from a nation like a Peru or Chile, the Blue Helmets have had a de facto quasi-blanket immunity when committing war crimes, and have some pretty horrifying history in places like Central Africa. For example: "Consi…

Don't forget the brave Dutch battalion that protected the civilians of Srebrenica in the secure UN enclave, oh wait, they didn't, they handed them off to Serb forces to be executed.

It was a badly thought out mission that was handed to the wrong unit and didn't receive any of the support it needed. There's no way a light infantry battalion could have defended Srebrenica from Mladic's army. It was theatre based on the hope that Mladic wouldn't attack.

While it was a particularly poor showing for a UN mission, and badly handled at every possible level, I don't think it's comparable raping children. It wasn't the UN soldiers who murdered the civilians, they were just completely unable to prevent it, and provided only an illusion of defense.

Re: Military shoots down another high-altitude object, over Lake Huron: officials

#498

Post by porbelm »

golol wrote: post #488
dismalpedigree wrote: post #396

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I predict a Chinese version of Starship within 18 months of a successful launch. The Chinese industrial espionage machine is unmatched.

You underestimate how incredibly difficult the work that SpaceX is doing is. No spaceflight oraganization in the world is close to having the capabilities that SpaceX has right now (Falcon 9, Falcon Heavy). Meanwhile Starship is almost ready.

That's why you do industrial espionage though; take advantage of all the R&D done by someone else, so most of the pitfalls are overcome and a lot of the testing is done.

Like knowing what kinds of alloys turned out not to work and why, etc. So you don't have to repeat all that.

Re: Military shoots down another high-altitude object, over Lake Huron: officials

#499

Post by usrusr »

arwineap wrote: post #446
localplume wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Surveillance satellites are very different to directly flying this equipment into US airspace, including the fact that this equipment could hold paylods other than ISR. Not to mention this comment implies China does not have equivalent spy satellites, which it does. Also the UN is an absolute joke. That article links has China and Russia complaining about the West being aggressors so honestly its kinda BS. Also forge…

I'm failing to understand how balloons are different from satellites, save for altitude; those sats could be carrying payloads other than ISR as well.

Payloads from a balloon could be dropped, payloads released in orbit stay in orbit. LEO would be a very bad choice for anything intended to eventually interact with the ground in other ways than using electromagnetic waves.

Re: Military shoots down another high-altitude object, over Lake Huron: officials

#500

Post by porbelm »

kkielhofner wrote: post #43

Random question - anyone know how a sidewinder missile hits these objects (whatever they are)? My missile knowledge is non-existent but movies show me it has something to do with heat signature - which these don’t seem to have.

Well it goes real noisy like NEERRRRRERERRRRRERRRRERRRRwarblewarblewarble and something gets hit. I thought it knew where it wasn't but that's the Tomahawk. The Sidewinder just knows where thing is.

That's the extent of my knowledge about the AIM-9 Sidewinder.

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