No level of alcohol consumption is safe for our health • Hacker News Board

Re: No level of alcohol consumption is safe for our health

#311

Post by tptacek » Sat, Feb 11, 2023, 5:03 PM UTC

rayiner wrote: post #256

B8MGHCBekDuRi wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yeah, prohibition totally worked. Why not call McCarthy back too? Alcohol problems are not the same thing of alcohol consumption. Also: Scotland's alcohol consumption is among the highest in the world, according to World Health Organization data; on average, Scots consume the equivalent of more than 13 liters (3.4 gallons) of pure alcohol a year, about 40 percent more than Americans (2.4 gallons) We in Italy consume…

> yeah, prohibition totally worked. Americans are much more compliant now, not to mention health and socially conscious. For example, the culture of alcohol use has disparate impacts on black and brown communities: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2771773/ ("African Americans and Hispanics bear a disproportionately greater burden of alcohol-related health problems compared to whites, as evidenced by highe…

It sounds like you're trolling, and that you're not seriously proposing a return to prohibition, but rather using it as a snarky frame with which to criticize unrelated beliefs.

Re: No level of alcohol consumption is safe for our health

#312

Post by VLM » Sat, Feb 11, 2023, 5:07 PM UTC

barbazoo wrote: post #278

VLM wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Compartmentalization. Plenty of stimulant and H and other drug abusers in tech. Sugar and alcohol are addictive and addictions are irrational and you can't use rational objective thought to get out of a situation that is inherently irrational and subjective, like addiction. Essentially zero H users, for example, have never heard the news that H is bad for them. Can't just concentrate hard enough to get out of an addi…

Sorry, what is H?

Heroin, my advice would be to not use it

Re: No level of alcohol consumption is safe for our health

#313

Post by toomanyrichies » Sat, Feb 11, 2023, 5:29 PM UTC

rayiner wrote: post #256

B8MGHCBekDuRi wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yeah, prohibition totally worked. Why not call McCarthy back too? Alcohol problems are not the same thing of alcohol consumption. Also: Scotland's alcohol consumption is among the highest in the world, according to World Health Organization data; on average, Scots consume the equivalent of more than 13 liters (3.4 gallons) of pure alcohol a year, about 40 percent more than Americans (2.4 gallons) We in Italy consume…

> yeah, prohibition totally worked. Americans are much more compliant now, not to mention health and socially conscious. For example, the culture of alcohol use has disparate impacts on black and brown communities: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2771773/ ("African Americans and Hispanics bear a disproportionately greater burden of alcohol-related health problems compared to whites, as evidenced by highe…

> yeah, prohibition totally worked.

>> Americans are much more compliant now

Are you saying prohibition is worth another attempt? Because we're currently in our 52nd year of the official start of the War on Drugs [1], which is just Prohibition by another name. Unofficially, the War on Drugs goes back much further, and it's a war that the government has been losing badly since the start [2]. Even per-capita, we're the biggest consumers of illegal drugs in the world [3]. So I'd be curious to hear what evidence of compliance you could give, which would outweigh the evidence of non-compliance going back to at least the Nixon administration.

1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_on_drugs

2. https://www.ahdbonline.com/articles/2053-are-we-winning-the-...

3. https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/drug-use-...

Re: No level of alcohol consumption is safe for our health

#314

Post by keymon-o » Sat, Feb 11, 2023, 5:36 PM UTC

dento wrote: post #267

keymon-o wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would choosing a safer travel method or avoiding unnecessary drives ruin the quality of life? I am not proposing to quit living a life, only adjusting the methods of living. We obviously don’t share the same values regarding the quality of life. I think it’s more funny you choose a rhetoric that suits your lifestyle and your needs, and dismiss that it might be helpful for people who don’t find alcohol culture app…

Consider having to decide between a 20 min trip by car, or 1 hour trip by train, and the car driving has 100x serious accident probability. However, you save 40 minutes if you drive. Likely, driving doesn't take 40 min off your life expectancy. And even if it did, you save the minutes now, and not at the end of your life.

You consider sitting in peace for 40 minutes to be shortening of your life expectancy?

I can emphatize, though, if the feeling corresponds to what I feel participating in this thread.

Re: No level of alcohol consumption is safe for our health

#315

Post by rayiner » Sat, Feb 11, 2023, 5:37 PM UTC

__derek__ wrote: post #293

rayiner wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the BBC article: "Men who are dependent on alcohol or drugs are six or seven times more likely to be involved in domestic abuse against women than others, according to an extensive new study." That makes sense--alcohol decreases inhibition. It makes you do things that maybe you were inclined to do, but wouldn't do sober. (That is part of why people drink alcohol in the first place.)

> dependent on alcohol or drugs are six or seven times more likely NB: this does not mean actively using. Dependency creates significant stress when sober, which almost certainly amplifies violent dispositions. Hence my GP's comment.

> Dependency creates significant stress when sober, which almost certainly amplifies violent dispositions.

How does that not support my point?

Re: No level of alcohol consumption is safe for our health

#316

Post by giantg2 » Sat, Feb 11, 2023, 5:38 PM UTC

kenjackson wrote: post #146

giantg2 wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Risks start from the first drop" If this is true, the medical community is actively causing harm. Many compounded or suspended children's medicines contain alcohol. Many do not have alcohol free alternatives.

Even if there are risks you have to compare the risks. Would I have a child drink a small amount of alcohol for some life saving drug? Just like how you drive to work despite there being a risk in driving.

What your example misses, is that alternatives exist to alcohol for most medicines. There's no reason for most of these medications to include alcohol.

Re: No level of alcohol consumption is safe for our health

#317

Post by hprotagonist » Sat, Feb 11, 2023, 5:40 PM UTC

deepsquirrelnet wrote: post #302

hprotagonist wrote: post #166

All things in moderation, including moderation. neopuritans be damned.

Except meth. Not even once. But seriously, I’m fully on board with this sentiment. I’m so tired of everything quickly going to extremes. I’m glad to know alcohol has risks at any level. I’ll take that information and use it how I see fit. Same with cannabis, same with sugar, same with adult content, same with lead-containing enamel on my plates. Give me the information I need and let me be responsible for myself. Awa…

> Except meth. Not even once.

Unless you happen to be a hungarian mathematician, in which case: have at!

Re: No level of alcohol consumption is safe for our health

#318

Post by giantg2 » Sat, Feb 11, 2023, 5:43 PM UTC

GuB-42 wrote: post #221

giantg2 wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Risks start from the first drop" If this is true, the medical community is actively causing harm. Many compounded or suspended children's medicines contain alcohol. Many do not have alcohol free alternatives.

All medicine have risks, the added alcohol is a tiny extra risk that the medical community thinks it is worth taking because it has benefits that are greater than the risks. For example, other chemicals that could be used as a substitute may be worse or poorly tested. Medicine containing alcohol often comes with a few more counter-indications because of it, plus it limits the sales to people who wish to maintain stri…

"If they keep the alcohol, it is probably for a good reason."

Can you name medications that require alcohol vs an alternative? Most of the alternatives are innocent like glycerin, or similar to food preservatives.

My main point is that there is hypocrisy. Saying that one drop is dangerous yet having it be heavily prevalent children's meds... one of these isn't right.

Re: No level of alcohol consumption is safe for our health

#319

Post by giantg2 » Sat, Feb 11, 2023, 5:45 PM UTC

klodolph wrote: post #156

giantg2 wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Risks start from the first drop" If this is true, the medical community is actively causing harm. Many compounded or suspended children's medicines contain alcohol. Many do not have alcohol free alternatives.

> If this is true, the medical community is actively causing harm. That’s kind of a bizarre way of phrasing it. Yes, the medical community actively causes lesser harms, with the goals of preventing greater harms. Radiation therapy and chemotherapy, for example, are extremely harmful! Yet we use them as cancer treatments because the cancer we are treating with them is probably more harmful than the treatment. Radiatio…

With alcohol, its often times added to medicines as an inactive ingredient with little to no therapeutic value. It also has alternatives.

My main point is that's it's hypocritical to say one drop is dangerous and then have a myriad of children's meds containing it when alternative ingredients exist.

Re: No level of alcohol consumption is safe for our health

#320

Post by rayiner » Sat, Feb 11, 2023, 5:47 PM UTC

B8MGHCBekDuRi wrote: post #297

rayiner wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> yeah, prohibition totally worked. Americans are much more compliant now, not to mention health and socially conscious. For example, the culture of alcohol use has disparate impacts on black and brown communities: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2771773/ ("African Americans and Hispanics bear a disproportionately greater burden of alcohol-related health problems compared to whites, as evidenced by highe…

> Americans are much more compliant now American health issue are mostly class based. Black and brown people are poorer on average, hence they face more issues regarding health issues in general. Alcohol abuse is a well known addiction among people of lower classes, while higher classes prefer other more expensive substances. Also with more money available come higher quality alcoholic beverages.

If you look at the articles I linked, it's actually the opposite. Black people are almost twice as likely to report not drinking as white people. Alcohol use also increases with socioeconomic status: https://www.alcoholrehabguide.org/blog/socioeconomic-status-....