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Tech's Elite Hates Labor

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Re: Tech's Elite Hates Labor

#81

Post by SoftAnnaLee »

idlewords wrote: post #48
carapace wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This seems like another good moment to bring up that time the FAANGs and adjacent companies literally colluded to abuse their workers: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-Tech_Employee_Antitrust_L... It went far and wide, and they knew what they were doing: https://web.archive.org/web/20200304045453/https://pando.com...

Why the workers never colluded to flex their considerable latent power against these employers is the real question. A lot of these cloaks of victimhood are very expensively tailored.

Because since the 1980's, the US government (as well as other western governments) have been dismantling the ability and protections for worker unionization. Thatcher, Reagan, and Mulroney were all notable for being anti-labor.

Re: Tech's Elite Hates Labor

#82

Post by thebradbain »

bdcravens wrote: post #44
thebradbain wrote: post #9

For another perspective on high-skill labor organization, also based in California, for an industry that dominates the industry of its biggest city and is also one of our nation’s most lucrative industries, let’s look to Hollywood. The Hollywood guilds should be held up as a model for high skilled labor. It’s also something tech and (and especially the gaming industry) can learn from. The WGA, for example, allows the…

Very little of Hollywood's work can be done remotely. Even the parts that can are essentially protected by that network that can't, they are so intertwined. Also Hollywood has a substantial moat that prevents an indie studio in Tulsa from having access to the same distribution network, etc. Not suggesting that "big tech" doesn't have advantages, but overall, there's an entire world of software development outside of…

> You don’t even need a college edification to do most of the work in our industry

You don’t in entertainment either, I can assure you that unless you’re working at an agency or a studio salaryman, no one will ask. But those are more corporate than creative jobs, anyways.

And at least from person experience, a lot of Hollywood TV writers rooms are still remote or hybrid (they found it works better!)

Re: Tech's Elite Hates Labor

#83

Post by zozbot234 »

thebradbain wrote: post #68
zozbot234 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ..allows the lowest-rung writers of tv shows to make $70-80k/year as a minimum floor for 6-8 months of work, twice that if it’s the full year, and guarantees you healthcare for when you’re unemployed between shows/gigs. ... There's a word for that, it's called privilege. Unionization is a lose-lose solution. You should also realize that whenever highly skilled workers are the critical bottleneck in a profitable ind…

…do you know how much Hollywood is worth? Not just financially but socially, historically, and politically on the global stage? And has been for almost a century? I could not think of any industry less “hobbled” than Hollywood. They have a sign worshipping itself sprawling across some of the most expensive hillside real estate in the country. Regardless, as another commentator pointed out— VFX artists are the largest…

> …do you know how much Hollywood is worth? Not just financially but socially, historically, and politically on the global stage?

AIUI if you run the numbers, the content industry is worth a lot and Hollywood is a big chunk of that, but the tech sector still wins handily.

VFX is a highly visible industry, that people want to be in even with the cost of low pay or bad work conditions. It's quite comparable to videogame development, which is one of the worst sectors to be in "tech".

Re: Tech's Elite Hates Labor

#84

Post by marssaxman »

vkou wrote: post #23
danuker wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder how the WGA will change its tune when language models will write episodes of indistinguishable quality from human writers.

I wonder when SWEs will change their tune when the same thing will happen to them.

We're in the business of making the same thing happen to ourselves.

Re: Tech's Elite Hates Labor

#85

Post by danuker »

luckydata wrote: post #13
danuker wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder how the WGA will change its tune when language models will write episodes of indistinguishable quality from human writers.

wow it took only one comment to make the article right, and it's not only the elite, it's even the "little people" doing a lot of the hating.

Taking feedback is a sign of maturity and adaptability.

Genuinely, what will happen with writers when scripts will be a dime a dozen, because people are going to use these new technologies?

Thinking about these scenarios is the POINT of a union, making sure writers stay relevant for the long-term future. Failing to address them makes for a lot of broken dreams and missed opportunities.

Re: Tech's Elite Hates Labor

#86

Post by sixothree »

WalterBright wrote: post #56

It's easy for laid off tech workers to start their own companies. Lots of my friends and colleagues have over the years. The fun thing about starting your own company, is you find out how much you're really worth!

Why is starting a company your solution to this problem?

Re: Tech's Elite Hates Labor

#87

Post by metalspot »

WalterBright wrote: post #56

It's easy for laid off tech workers to start their own companies. Lots of my friends and colleagues have over the years. The fun thing about starting your own company, is you find out how much you're really worth!

in the majority of cases the number is negative. but seriously, most people do start-ups for passion, not money, and they get what they want out of it. not everyone sees making money as the be all and end all of life. the people who do make a lot more of it. good for them. better to not worry about other people's choices and make sure you are happy with yours.

Re: Tech's Elite Hates Labor

#88

Post by ghaff »

freitzkriesler2 wrote: post #31
thebradbain wrote: post #9

For another perspective on high-skill labor organization, also based in California, for an industry that dominates the industry of its biggest city and is also one of our nation’s most lucrative industries, let’s look to Hollywood. The Hollywood guilds should be held up as a model for high skilled labor. It’s also something tech and (and especially the gaming industry) can learn from. The WGA, for example, allows the…

Those guilds are incredibly hard to break into. They're also why Georgia has been able to mop up all of the non union work. For better or for worse, they do their job but out of state scabs are a huge problem keeping industry work in LA.

The guilds are also good for helping to prevent too much of a race to the bottom for those who can break in and get work. They're less good for preventing people from having to wait tables between running out for auditions while waiting for their "big break."

Re: Tech's Elite Hates Labor

#90

Post by h2o_lover »

rektide wrote: post #10

Different topic, but tech to me is a craft, where there are a lot of integral issues of quality. Yet orgs at many levels rarely seem to care about software. It thinks on terms of business need, and seems to detest lowering itself to what actually is & makes up the product; it doesnt know (& maybe at best wants to trust this all is being well handled somewhere) does doesmt grapple with the other 50% of the org: the co…

In some sense I agree with you but I'd actually kind of invert the dynamic you're describing... I don't think writ large most people who have never professionally "done software" will ever be able to really "get it" about system maintainability and health. One aspect is that software engineers should probably get better at explaining this and backing it up with results and data, yes... but even moreso I think the problem is that software engineers haven't been empowered to influence, taught about, and held accountable for business strategy + outcomes nearly enough and business doesn't spend enough time trying to get engineers to buy in / understand / partner around their strategy.

I think it's a massive opportunity for the discipline of software engineering as a whole for engineers to start stepping up a bit more to position ourselves less as the misunderstood computer monks and more as the experts in making smart tradeoffs around what's good for the business, product, users, software itself, etc etc. In many companies, the most influential engineers + engineering leaders operate like this as it is.

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