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Tech's Elite Hates Labor

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Re: Tech's Elite Hates Labor

#31

Post by freitzkriesler2 »

thebradbain wrote: post #9

For another perspective on high-skill labor organization, also based in California, for an industry that dominates the industry of its biggest city and is also one of our nation’s most lucrative industries, let’s look to Hollywood. The Hollywood guilds should be held up as a model for high skilled labor. It’s also something tech and (and especially the gaming industry) can learn from. The WGA, for example, allows the…

Those guilds are incredibly hard to break into. They're also why Georgia has been able to mop up all of the non union work. For better or for worse, they do their job but out of state scabs are a huge problem keeping industry work in LA.

Re: Tech's Elite Hates Labor

#33

Post by brightball »

fullshark wrote: post #8

They hate the professional managerial class, but love the coders that go above and beyond to write them patents and build them technologies (capital) for only a steady paycheck.

This one is more complex.

If the company is explicitly paying you to build something to be patented, they should own it.

Making it yourself means not accepting their paycheck for the work and covering the associated expenses of your own time and filings. Then you own it and can license it to whoever.

If there’s some alternative way of doing this that still incentivizes the company to hire you in the first place, it’s probably worth negotiating up front. Patents aren’t very different from any other work for hire scenario in that the people paying for the work will own the result.

If you hire someone to renovate your house and make a ton of money selling it, does the contractor deserve a cut? If so, did he charge you less for that cut knowing it was a flip?

Re: Tech's Elite Hates Labor

#34

Post by thebradbain »

dlkf wrote: post #26
thebradbain wrote: post #9

For another perspective on high-skill labor organization, also based in California, for an industry that dominates the industry of its biggest city and is also one of our nation’s most lucrative industries, let’s look to Hollywood. The Hollywood guilds should be held up as a model for high skilled labor. It’s also something tech and (and especially the gaming industry) can learn from. The WGA, for example, allows the…

WGA west has about 10k members, whole US has about 15k. (This is from Google, please correct me if I got the wrong number.) By contrast, there are over a million people building software. Will this model scale up two orders of magnitude?

WGA is just one of many unions, but you’re right— getting into the “best” guilds is itself a process; but ostensibly, it’s to ensure that the guild keeps its prestige as a genuine body of talent. It’s a balancing act for sure, and I don’t know if tech wants to emulate everything exactly with the Hollywood guild system, but it’s worth taking inspiration from.

Re: Tech's Elite Hates Labor

#36

Post by eh9 »

It feels like we’re due for a “big reset”, but I doubt it’ll be aligned with VC interests. They need labor more than we need those companies. Americans should pick up a French history book.

Re: Tech's Elite Hates Labor

#37

Post by carapace »

treis wrote: post #15

Sometimes I can't even begin to comprehend the POVs I read on the internet. The FAANGs and adjacent companies treat their workers better than pretty much any other company in the world. The idea that workers there are somehow this abused underclass is ridiculous.

This seems like another good moment to bring up that time the FAANGs and adjacent companies literally colluded to abuse their workers:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-Tech_Employee_Antitrust_L...

It went far and wide, and they knew what they were doing:

https://web.archive.org/web/20200304045453/https://pando.com...

Re: Tech's Elite Hates Labor

#38

Post by freitzkriesler2 »

I find it ironic that for a long time people have been predicting the demise of low skilled and blue collar work to AI and robots.

But as I see it at present, it's the high end white collar work that is the most at risk being made redundant to AI since robots and mobile power solutions aren't robust enough to eliminate blue collar work quite yet.

I know someone will say why this isn't going to happen but for many in middle and upper management good enough will suffice if it means eliminating expensive white collar workers. That day is coming.

Re: Tech's Elite Hates Labor

#39

Post by thebradbain »

forrestthewoods wrote: post #24
thebradbain wrote: post #9

For another perspective on high-skill labor organization, also based in California, for an industry that dominates the industry of its biggest city and is also one of our nation’s most lucrative industries, let’s look to Hollywood. The Hollywood guilds should be held up as a model for high skilled labor. It’s also something tech and (and especially the gaming industry) can learn from. The WGA, for example, allows the…

The problem with this theory is that the gaming industry has to work with the Voice Actors Guild and they are a huge pain in the ass. The hourly rate is fine. The min/max hours is fine. The union exclusivity clause is bullshit. They won’t even allow you to use your own company’s employees to record temporary VO. It’s all or nothing. Expo hall unions are even worse. I have to wait 30 minutes and pay someone $50 so the…

Oh I agree— certain things with Hollywood Guilds are exclusive for the point of being exclusive. Tech doesn’t need to, nor should it, strive to copy Hollywood exactly. We’re a completely different industry, after all

Re: Tech's Elite Hates Labor

#40

Post by MrMetlHed »

dlkf wrote: post #26
thebradbain wrote: post #9

For another perspective on high-skill labor organization, also based in California, for an industry that dominates the industry of its biggest city and is also one of our nation’s most lucrative industries, let’s look to Hollywood. The Hollywood guilds should be held up as a model for high skilled labor. It’s also something tech and (and especially the gaming industry) can learn from. The WGA, for example, allows the…

WGA west has about 10k members, whole US has about 15k. (This is from Google, please correct me if I got the wrong number.) By contrast, there are over a million people building software. Will this model scale up two orders of magnitude?

Quick search suggests that United Food and Commercial Workers International Union has 1.3m members, so why not? And a union isn't always the best solution for some places, so it's easy for me to imagine smaller companies not having one while larger ones do. Or different unions for different situations and types of work.

(edited to add: Obviously the UFCW is not the type of prestige guild the WGA is. Unionizing probably isn't always the best solution, but some amount of work in tech -- QA for example (https://www.theverge.com/2022/12/2/23489932/activision-blizz...) -- could be unionized under that type of system, while other employees become members of more powerful guilds that command higher salaries.)

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