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The KLF: Chaos, magic and the band who burned £1M

johnhiggs.com

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Re: The KLF: Chaos, magic and the band who burned £1M

#71

Post by TheOtherHobbes »

msla wrote: post #41
leoedin wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did they piss it away though? That single statement was so powerful it's still causing emotional arguments about it 20 years later. Can you say that about other things people spent £1m on in 1994?

> That single statement was so powerful it's still causing emotional arguments about it 20 years later. I hate this argument, because it's worse than vacuous: It makes out that art is about as meaningful as a gunshot in a crowded room. Is that art? It'll damn well get a reaction, especially from the person who was just shot. Shouldn't we demand more from art? Like actual meaning and maybe, just maybe, a positive impa…

Would you be happier if they'd used the money for startup seed funding with a view to eventually cashing out after IPO?

I suspect a lot of people are offended that in a supposedly free capitalist culture they had - and presumably still have - the freedom to subvert the usual rules.

In capitalism artists are either supposed to be poor and struggling, or fragile gilded celebrities cocooned in enviable opulence. Both options are defined by money.

It's a shock to the system for a successful artist to act with self-determination and to dramatise control over capital instead of being controlled by it.

Re: The KLF: Chaos, magic and the band who burned £1M

#72

Post by atchoo »

mytailorisrich wrote: post #69
techno_tsar wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Deeply selfish? There are literally millions and millions of extremely wealthy people who would spend that amount doing nothing, buying a yacht, their 20th property, or do actual terrible things. I don’t resent them for burning their money. They could have bought toys, instead they made a statement. We live in a world where many of us (myself included) have to live with the pain of not having enough. I’m reminded of…

If you buy a yacht or a supercar you give the money to a number of people. If you actually burn the money you destroy it and it is lost for everyone. So while people do what they want with their money, actually burning it like is rightly seen as a dick move by most people. It is also illegal in many countries.

Is it lost for everyone or is it more like a stock buyback? Did everyone's money become 0.000000001% more valuable by taking that chunk out of circulation?

Can an economist tell me please?

Re: The KLF: Chaos, magic and the band who burned £1M

#73

Post by logifail »

detrites wrote: post #48
logifail wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> instead they made a statement What does that mean? I mean really mean? Follow-up question: did they achieve anything .. other than (even more) notoriety?

Making a controversial artistic statement that results in widespread media coverage places whatever issue being highlighted at the forefront of popular discussion and thought, if only for a time. In this case, the ramifications of the public questioning and examining the fundamentals of ownership, the distribution of wealth and its potential injustices etc - are difficult to quantify, but can be assumed to be valuabl…

> the ramifications of the public questioning and examining the fundamentals of ownership

"The public"? Which public? No politican from Kier Starmer rightwards is seriously doing anything of the sort.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/government-breakfast-b...

Re: The KLF: Chaos, magic and the band who burned £1M

#74

Post by detrites »

atchoo wrote: post #72
mytailorisrich wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you buy a yacht or a supercar you give the money to a number of people. If you actually burn the money you destroy it and it is lost for everyone. So while people do what they want with their money, actually burning it like is rightly seen as a dick move by most people. It is also illegal in many countries.

Is it lost for everyone or is it more like a stock buyback? Did everyone's money become 0.000000001% more valuable by taking that chunk out of circulation? Can an economist tell me please?

Not an economist, but in crypto, "coin burns" are a regular occurrence where a percentage of supply is destroyed, typically by sending to a public address for which the corresponding private key is proven unknown.

The result is intended to be a rise in price, benefiting all holders. It can be uncertain to assess whether a resultant rise in price is actually due to a coin burn, but given a coins supply is commonly used as a valuer, it's plausible.

Re: The KLF: Chaos, magic and the band who burned £1M

#75

Post by gnfargbl »

A few years back, the KLF (as CALLENDER, PHILLIPS, CAUTY & DRUMMOND UNDERTAKERS) were attempting to build a giant pyramid in central Liverpool. The pyramid was/is to be constructed of bricks each containing 23g of cremated human remains.

https://www.mumufication.com/get-mumufication/

Much more interesting than burning a million quid. Wonder if they're still following through with it.

Re: The KLF: Chaos, magic and the band who burned £1M

#76

Post by flohofwoe »

Baeocystin wrote: post #35
wpietri wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I thought it was deeply selfish stunt then, and still do now. Not sure if this helps you, but the money supply changes all the time. The government creates and destroys money as needed and nobody ever says boo. What these folks did made all the other money in circulation worth slightly more, so nothing was actually lost in the way that would have been had they, say, bought houses and burned them down.

I appreciate the kind words. My anger at their actions comes from how coddled from reality they had to be to make such a choice. The levers of monetary supply and demand, of course, 'make' and 'destroy' much larger sums on a daily basis. But those aren't liquid values under control of a single person, either. Money that is, is much more salient, and more valuable. And they just pissed it away.

Would it have been better if they spent the money on "coke and hookers" like it was expected from "proper" rock stars?

Re: The KLF: Chaos, magic and the band who burned £1M

#77

Post by atchoo »

NomDePlum wrote: post #18
ilamont wrote: post #6

I used to work for Jimmy Cauty and Bill Drummond's record label. This book looks interesting ... but I really wish the focus was on the art and the music, and not the "the guys who burnt 1 million quid" incident. One thing that the media have a tough time recognizing is the fact that Bill and Jimmy are legit experimental artists, and still love making art of all kinds. And they also happened to have some amazing musi…

Might just be me, I was of that time, but the burning £1M whilst interesting isn't really why I remember them. It's almost the least interesting thing about them. Being Scottish I was more amused by the location being an island in Scotland. To me, they where post-acid house, but still connected to the fun and experimentation that had going for it. A bit like De La Soul they where of themselves. Always wondered if the…

Why do you think Daft Punk has a similar vibe?

Their early minimal techno stuff isn't terribly imaginative and their pop/disco/funk stuff has always felt safe, commercial and boring to me. The only musical similarity is "use samples". I don't think they've ever ruffled someone's jimmies or done anything musically daring. They appear in Gap adverts whereas the KLF would be more likely to firebomb a Gap store.

Re: The KLF: Chaos, magic and the band who burned £1M

#78

Post by mytailorisrich »

atchoo wrote: post #72
mytailorisrich wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you buy a yacht or a supercar you give the money to a number of people. If you actually burn the money you destroy it and it is lost for everyone. So while people do what they want with their money, actually burning it like is rightly seen as a dick move by most people. It is also illegal in many countries.

Is it lost for everyone or is it more like a stock buyback? Did everyone's money become 0.000000001% more valuable by taking that chunk out of circulation? Can an economist tell me please?

That's not even a nitpick. Your own comment provides your answer: it does not change the value of money in any way and does not benefit anyone.

Re: The KLF: Chaos, magic and the band who burned £1M

#79

Post by otherme123 »

atchoo wrote: post #72
mytailorisrich wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you buy a yacht or a supercar you give the money to a number of people. If you actually burn the money you destroy it and it is lost for everyone. So while people do what they want with their money, actually burning it like is rightly seen as a dick move by most people. It is also illegal in many countries.

Is it lost for everyone or is it more like a stock buyback? Did everyone's money become 0.000000001% more valuable by taking that chunk out of circulation? Can an economist tell me please?

It does exactly that.

But if you go deeper in the meaning of money, it's even better: when you receive money, what you actually receive is an IOU for a good or a service. E.g. when you receive $40 for fixing a computer, it means the society owes you $40 that you can claim at any time. Burning the $40 means that you fixed the computer for free, and that you don't want anything in return, and at the same time nobody can claim the $40 in your name (i.e. you didn't give the money away).

The "you should buy anything to move the economy" is a well known economic fallacy.

Re: The KLF: Chaos, magic and the band who burned £1M

#80

Post by davidy123 »

techno_tsar wrote: post #21
Baeocystin wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>More often than not, it's the one-off act of Burning a Million Quid in 1994. Their ground-breaking music, the books, the anti-establishment statements and art ... it's almost an afterthought. The pain of not having enough is a fundamental human experience, and to see someone who had more than most will ever see in their lifetime literally burn it away hurts. I thought it was deeply selfish stunt then, and still do n…

Deeply selfish? There are literally millions and millions of extremely wealthy people who would spend that amount doing nothing, buying a yacht, their 20th property, or do actual terrible things. I don’t resent them for burning their money. They could have bought toys, instead they made a statement. We live in a world where many of us (myself included) have to live with the pain of not having enough. I’m reminded of…

Buying a 20th property &c is a statement that you don't have anything better to do with your money. It's kind of the same thing.

I'm not 100% comfortable with it, but MrBeast is probably the Musk of this potential. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJ2ifmkGGus

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