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Steve Wozniak used to tip from printed sheets of $2 bills

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Re: Steve Wozniak used to tip from printed sheets of $2 bills

#541

Some of the comments in here scare me to bits: If HN's userbase is that scared of poking at the edges/inconsistencies of authority, even in jest, then how would anyone gain the expertise of challenging said authority when top-down control is pushed too far?

> HN's userbase is that scared of poking at the edges/inconsistencies of authority, even in jest

It wasn't always like this, even just 5 years ago. I don't know where all the weirdos came from but they've fundamentally changed this site, and not in a good way.

Re: Steve Wozniak used to tip from printed sheets of $2 bills

#542
post #433

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the political group being spoken of here would've been the crowd reinvigorated by his election.

Mission accomplished

Defense contractors are and will continue to make millions.

Cost of the Bush Era wars will probably reach $2 Trillion due to long-term healthcare costs for veterans (on top of the bombs and MRAPs and M-16s, etc.).

One of the biggest financial coups in US history. Mission Accomplished indeed -- cuz that's what he was celebrating with that flight.

Search for the list of the richest counties in the US, and notice how many of them are in the Greater Washington DC area (VA & MD).

Re: Steve Wozniak used to tip from printed sheets of $2 bills

#543

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Stolen valor is a crime. A civilian wearing an army T-shirt is not “stolen valor” in the sense that stolen valor is a crime, so this is, at best, equivocation. While I believe (but I don’t feel like checking the UCMJ) there is a much more extensive crime (or set of crimes) relating to stolen valor within the military, the crime of stolen valor that it is possible for a civilian to commit consists of, and (outside o…

I didn’t say a civilian wearing an army shirt is stolen valor, however pretending to haven been in the military while never having been is. Wearing a band shirt and an army shirt are not comparable at all. The default thought when someone sees someone wearing a military shirt is “oh they were in the military”. The thought when wearing a band shirt certainly wasn’t “oh they must be in the who”.

> I didn’t say a civilian wearing an army shirt is stolen valor, however pretending to haven been in the military while never having been is.

Again, no, not in a sense of “stolen valor” where “stolen valor is a crime” is true, it isn’t. You are still engaging in thebsame equivocation where you are trying make an argument grounded in “this behavior has a name which is also the name of a crime”, even though the behavior in question is not within the scope of the definition of the crime. Fraud is a crime (older than “stolen valor”, which is a novel 21st century crime in the US), pretending to have been in the military other than as part of a fraud scheme is not. (ISTR at least one state has proposed a more general ban on this, but even if it passed it would likely be struck down aa violating the First Amendment, just like the earlier and somewhat broader version of the Stolen Valor Act was.)

> Wearing a band shirt and an army shirt are not comparable at all.

To the extent that there is a defensible argument for this position, it doesn't involve invocations of non-germane criminal law.

Re: Steve Wozniak used to tip from printed sheets of $2 bills

#544
post #535

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Baiting" the security guy has only as much weight as his unnecessary investigation. They knew the bills were fine but he came to investigate anyway and he didn't just ask "Hey, how'd ya get those bills?" but tried to be sneaky. He was also salaried and got paid for the interaction so he wasn't a victim in the slightest, except perhaps to his ego. The nasty act here, and possibly criminal, was the security guy callin…

> He was also salaried and got paid for the interaction so he wasn't a victim in the slightest, except perhaps to his ego. Yes, trying to hurt somebody's ego would indeed be a pretty good example of humiliating them. Look, if you think that the bound booklet of $2 bills is a fun gag, there's a humane and lighthearted way to do it. You use the bills as described, but if somebody seems even a bit uncomfortable with the…

> Yes, trying to hurt somebody's ego would indeed be a pretty good example of humiliating them.

If someone's ego is tweaked when they find they're wrong then perhaps that's a helpful thing to do.

> Look, if you think that the bound booklet of $2 bills is a fun gag, there's a humane and lighthearted way to do it. ... if somebody seems even a bit uncomfortable

They're for tips. If someone is uncomfortable they don't have to take them.

> It was all about showing his superiority over this sad loser working a 10-hour shift in a suit, who thought he knew a thing or two about counterfeit money. Well, he wasn't all that, and Woz sure showed him who the smartest guy in the room was.

That guy had already tested the bills and knew they were legit. If he was honestly curious how Woz got the bills he could have just asked. Instead he decided to fish around for anything he could try to rat out an innocent person for.

> No unsuspecting person would have this interaction in the first place.

But their cases would be identical from the PoV of the security guy. Some thing would "seem off" and the employee would follow them around or harass them over some legit thing that he didn't like and maybe even call the police about it.

If they think that some customers are playing games they might be a bit more on their toes and think about what they're doing, so as to not be caught in a prank. That will have a good impact on innocent people they interact with.

> [Scenario with fake bug report] then finally the customer smugly says that there never was a bug. ... made everything up. ... It's a hilarious gag, what a prankster!

That's nothing like this scenario. To try to correct it, Woz was happily using their app on his phone when an employee noticed what looked like an error. They stopped him and called him a hacker, tried to trick him into admissions, and when they finally reported and tracked down what he was doing it was just hitting back at the right time to avoid an interstitial, or whatever. The joke is that he was trying to say "it's fine" the whole time and everyone assumes he's a hacker so nobody listens, finally ending up with egg on their face when they wasted their own time.

> And you were paid for this work, no harm done, right?

Well, some to the company. I assume they'd say "maybe in the future, don't go wasting time pestering customers for something that we already knew didn't impact us." It's a teaching moment. It could save them from a lawsuit in the future if that guard thought he had the right to detain people.

> No. Fuck that. I would be furious at having my time wasted like that. And this is what Woz did. Not just once, but probably dozens of times. That's just outright sociopathic behavior,

You're overreacting. This is a perfect example of someone I'd feel needed to be pranked, because it sounds like you're ready to snap on anyone you think is mocking you and you're vastly more likely to do it to someone innocent than either a criminal or a prankster.

Re: Steve Wozniak used to tip from printed sheets of $2 bills

#545

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I drove alone to the US from Canada for a trip in 1999 no passport (never had and still don't have one). The US Border Agents used my driver's license as proof of my ID. But they were convinced my goal was to go there to live. they tore my car apart, took everything out of luggage. They let me go but thought I was never coming back. All I was doing was going to a Thanksgiving dinner in Scranton.

How do you know what they thought? And if they truly believed that why would they let you through?

Because one border guard in particular specifically stated that he didn't believe me but there was nothing he could do to prevent me from entering the USA. But if it were up to him he would not let me enter and would send me back to Canada. He was a dick I remember him even 24 years later. The other guards were much more professional.

Re: Steve Wozniak used to tip from printed sheets of $2 bills

#546

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stripped down, this is an appeal to emotion. It feels good and honorable to say, just like defending a member of your family. That is a goal of the mythology, and it works! It's a hell of a drug. I don't intend to criticize the military -- combat or non. But the psychology of it is fascinating.

You said a whole lot of nothing here. Tell me how those willing to die are somehow the same as someone not and it’s somehow psychological? This seems like a psychological issue with some demanding they have given just as much, and are just as important, yet are too scared to pay the ultimate price. Or how about the psychological issue that results in hatred towards the military? That one I witnessed personally and I…

Some people love the Kool-Aid, some people drink it out of convenience, some people detest all sugary drinks on principle, and some people just find flavor chemistry to be fascinating.

Re: Steve Wozniak used to tip from printed sheets of $2 bills

#547
post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree, a key social purpose of complex legal rules is regulatory capture that allows powerful people to stay powerful. Smart powerful people don’t have to break the rules, they follow them in practice but not in spirit, whereas people without access to lawyers and legal sophistication break rules unknowingly, even when following them in spirit.

I'm talking in the practical kind of way: speeding, parking where you're not supposed to, "better to ask forgiveness than permission" kind of things, creative bookkeeping (I'm from Belgium :D), ... . No idea what kind of high profile business owners you know, but in my circle in Belgium, most are small business owners. In my experience, employees like to follow rules, business owners like to push their boundaries.

I do know some high powered industry leaders in the USA. At that level you don’t break the rules, you make them… specifically to exclude you competitors while leaving carefully crafted loopholes for yourself.

I agree that what you are talking about applies to scrappy startup types, the same people that eventually stop breaking the rules once they have enough power not to need to.

Re: Steve Wozniak used to tip from printed sheets of $2 bills

#548

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reminds me of a time in 7th grade when I wore a band t-shirt that I had received as a gift. A kid in my class took exception because he doubted that I even owned any of their albums. The kid called me a "poser". It also makes me think of my uncle who is a very proud labor union member. He gets upset if anyone says anything disparaging about labor unions. My point is, it sounds to me like people taking honor in being…

Your comment is rather offensive. Stolen valor is a crime. Wearing a band t-shirt while not listening to the band is not. Military members risk their lives for others. People that do this get respect, be it a Dr, Military, Police, etc.

I apologize for making you feel offended. That was not my intent.

I wasn't trying to make light of the service of military members. I agree that it is wrong to try to obtain fake respect.

I was just recounting two specific tales from my memory about people being defensive against others disrespecting their social circles. I find the behavior interesting ... maybe because I have never felt that way before about something.

When I mentioned psychology, my curiosity was in the context of behavior psychology (what is the word used to describe the behavior), not in the context of a mental illness.

Incidentally, I did like the band's music, I just didn't own any of their albums.

Re: Steve Wozniak used to tip from printed sheets of $2 bills

#549
post #447
post #3

> [The Secret Service agent] asked my for some picture ID. I have some fake photo ID's that a friend made for me years before, when we could make realistic photo ID's from our computers. Almost nobody else could do this because printers weren't good enough. But I had an expensive early generation dye sublimation printer and made some fake ID's for fun. I had one favorite fake ID that I'd used for almost every airplan…

How the hell can you travel internationally with a fake US ID?

As he mentions later in the story, he also has a passport.

Re: Steve Wozniak used to tip from printed sheets of $2 bills

#550
Sheesh the comments on the ID! All morality and legality aside, we have to take a little bit of context into account. The Great Woz is behaving in the much heralded spirit of the age, encapsulated in things like Make. He may as well actually be the Lazer and Chief (retired) of the Defiance Department. A sense of humor might help with the nuance. Imagine the back-office or radio chatter tho. "Casino security says the bills are real. They have better machines than we do. Right. Some technician at Apple. Makes sense. Alright Tom I'll call you back."
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