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Need help with students who've turned my class into a dating service

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Re: Need help with students who've turned my class into a dating service

#531

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So what, you're hoping that potential love interests just stagnate like you and don't date and find other partners? No. This is highly unrealistic of normal young men and women.

It's one thing to become familiar and make friends with people around you, that's just the natural order of society. It's completely another to pork yourself out in environments and situations unfit or not intended for such purposes. You ostensibly go to class to learn, not (eventually) fuck.

The problem about that is the exact opposite is happening. There is a teacher who wants to interject herself into the private lives of her adult students, have full control over how they meet, control their sexual interactions, and exert excessive influence outside of her classroom. She is attempting to force her beliefs on how people should form personal or sexual relationships, by taking advantage of her position as a teacher.

This "porking" you are referring to is not happening inside of her classroom, it's outside. The adult students should have the freedom to associate with whoever they want to, for whatever reasons they want to, as long as its legal and consenting. If any of the individual adult female students have an actual complaint of harassment, they can bring that case directly.

The teacher in question didn't personally like the nature of the associations being made among her adult students, and seeks to stop any possibility of "porking" through multiple public and elaborate means. To include attempting to indirectly shame all parties involved and force the school's hand.

Re: Need help with students who've turned my class into a dating service

#532

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FWIW, I never said anything about "quality" of women; the implication that attractive women might be less than "sensible" is your own doing, and I disagree with it. I'm only assuming that these guys would also want to attract or favorably impress these women somehow; if so, what they are doing is not really helpful or conducive to that goal.

> I'm only assuming that these guys would also want to attract or favorably impress these [sensible] women somehow; if so, what they are doing is not really helpful or conducive to that goal. That's a very big IF . Their goal seems to be to attract an (or more) attractive woman(women). There is no indication that your assumption is in any way correct, and I've no idea why one would assume this. Your post came off as…

The point is not that they should be "getting the correct girls" but "getting the correct attitude and behavior from these same girls" - behavior that helps you romantically, that is. Let's go through this step by step. If you're just barely getting a girl to agree to a date, you're basically back at square one in terms of wooing her - except that now you've also foolishly thrown away a chance to be friendly with her in a way more natural fashion. You're left hoping for something not unlike love at first sight, which is rare. And when these things go south (as they probably will) the girl will quite probably feel bad about it and blame you for that silly, "manipulative" tutoring stunt that got her to agree to a date in the first place. It's just a problematic situation all around.

Re: Need help with students who've turned my class into a dating service

#533

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I took that as within their lab groups. As-in sitting with their group of 4 or so, they led the group work. Honestly, whatever their motives, that kind of interaction is what group work is for. Having students that can lead and communicate with peers is invaluable.

This works great until someone rejects their advances and in retaliation the male student (who is auditing the class so they have no consequences for failure) sabotages the female student's labs and therefore their grade.

You're fabricating a scenario that even the professor wasn't so absurd to propose.

Re: Need help with students who've turned my class into a dating service

#534
post #43

> This might be hard, as no unwanted advances are taking place. We simply have students excelling at the course, and drawing-in a crowd. I should've been more clear with my "leching" comment. Still, it seems harassing in nature. It seems increasingly that society demands a world where dating only happens during designated and approved dating times and venues, and outside those strictly delimited places, men are to be…

Ohh hey Jordan Peterson, nice of you to weigh in!

Re: Need help with students who've turned my class into a dating service

#535

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why does the amount of effort make things better? By the same measure we would say spying on someone with binoculars is more acceptable than stalking their facebook page.

Effort is generally a pretty good proxy for respect. If this isn't a respectful attempt, can you explain what is a respectful attempt? You go to a class, offer to help a girl and then at some point later (End of the class, etc) you ask for her number. If she says no at any point you leave her alone. What's disrespectful about that if you're genuinely helping her? Of course if you're leering and won't leave a girl alo…

Damn you sound like such a clown.

"You don't get me Amanda, I'm stalking you because I just have so much respect for you. I'm one of the nice ones!"

"Well detective, I felt like we got off on the wrong foot because I kept a journal of her movements and social circle in a purely respectful manner, but she thought it was creepy. So then I thought, how much more respect can you show a woman than by carefully planning her murder and meticulously cleaning the scene and disposing of her body?"

Re: Need help with students who've turned my class into a dating service

#536

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm only assuming that these guys would also want to attract or favorably impress these [sensible] women somehow; if so, what they are doing is not really helpful or conducive to that goal. That's a very big IF . Their goal seems to be to attract an (or more) attractive woman(women). There is no indication that your assumption is in any way correct, and I've no idea why one would assume this. Your post came off as…

The point is not that they should be "getting the correct girls" but "getting the correct attitude and behavior from these same girls" - behavior that helps you romantically, that is. Let's go through this step by step. If you're just barely getting a girl to agree to a date, you're basically back at square one in terms of wooing her - except that now you've also foolishly thrown away a chance to be friendly with her…

> ...except that now you've also foolishly thrown away a chance to be friendly with her in a way more natural fashion...

Making way too many assumptions, to include interjecting personal beliefs on how other adults should or are suppose to meet.

These are adults, that have the right to choose how they want to approach and interact with each other, as long as its consenting and legal.

It also comes off as a denial of agency and choice of the adult women involved, as if they can't freely decide to enter a relationship or not. Thus we have 3rd parties wishing to involve themselves, where arguably they should not be placing themselves, to attempt to decide for them (interloping teacher or college) by villainizing or criminalizing the male students. Which at the end of the day, is actually what's wrong.

Re: Need help with students who've turned my class into a dating service

#537
post #503

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Less attractive girls get less male attention no matter what. Why would it be any more demoralizing if that attention comes with tutoring? Why would it be distracting? It seems everyone is complaining except the girls getting tutored. And if they did complain, if some guy was pushy or wouldn't take no for an answer, then deal with him the same as any other such guy - that they're attending a class for the sake of dat…

> Less attractive girls get less male attention no matter what. This is simple reality, but it seems certain people want to reject it. As if the less attractive women should be forcibly provided special access to the more attractive or top percentage of men. > It seems everyone is complaining except the girls (college women) getting tutored. I also find this quite strange. It's as if the college women tutored are den…

When you take a college class, there is an expectation that you do not receive special academic attention based on how good-looking you appear to some arbitrary people. Usually there isn't any need to have rules for this situation because

1. Teachers and TAs are forbidden from discriminating and signalling romantic/sexual interest during the course.

2. Those in the course are typically either being graded or auditing the course out of academic interest, and so romantic/sexual interest is rarely the primary factor for grouping up and helping each other out.

As such, this is rarely the norm when it comes to academic attention, in contradiction to

> This is simple reality

In response to complaining, you say

> It's as if the college women tutored are denied agency and are children of the school.

But the right thing to do in such a situation is exactly what they have done: to exercise their agency by raising their discomfort to the one that seems to be liable for setting the norms of their course, the professor. The other thing I've seen happen is students exercising their agency by avoiding the course altogether, albeit since the situation I've discussed is so rare, I'm thinking about an analoguous situation where a professor was notorious for giving preferential academic attention to attractive women.

> What the hell is going on that the teacher feels she should control the "dating privileges" of her female students and be empowered to block male heterosexual student access to her class.

Because the majority of her class who are taking in good faith thinks that this is detrimental to their student experience... the complaint isn't against men who are also taking the course in good faith.

> empowered to block male heterosexual student access to her class.

I find it a radical suggestion that people ought to be allowed access to a course when their goals are not in line with the course's goals.

> I find the behavior and intended actions of the teacher in question very strange. It's as if she wants to run a "pre-crime" unit, where the male students are already guilty, and her female students need to ask for her permission for who they can or can't date.

... no? She's not trying to control their students' dating lives. Her actions are against behavior that violates unspoken norms about the environment in which her course is conducted, violations for which she has received complaints for.

Re: Need help with students who've turned my class into a dating service

#538
post #237
post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s disrespectful because it ignores the fact that the women are not there to date, but to learn. The men are getting in their way by showing off and offering disingenuous tutoring.

Why do you assume the women aren’t as interested in dating as the men? Seems pretty sexist frankly.

I guess because they're complaining to the professor about it? Nice attempt to turn the table though, with social skills that subtle I bet you'd fit right with the bozos in this class.

Re: Need help with students who've turned my class into a dating service

#540
post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s disrespectful because it ignores the fact that the women are not there to date, but to learn. The men are getting in their way by showing off and offering disingenuous tutoring.

My wife told me when we started dating that she picked math in university to find a STEM boy (who was expected to get a high paying job. No math grad school for me). And yes, I helped her with her homework and with studying only because I was attracted to her and dating her. We're both happy with how that turned out. Honestly assuming we send our kids to college (it's looking like a house and a trust fund will be che…

So your wife copped to seeking out someone based on expected lifetime earnings? I'd be pretty pissed, personally.
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