Why not? This is reality and how the world works. Attractive men and women get promoted more easily, get better service in bars and restaurants, etc… to infinity. This idea that it’s more worthwhile to wail at the sky about how the world works rather than acknowledge it and seek to take advantage of other areas of life where the scales are tipped in your favor fucking mystifies me.
> Why not? This is reality and how the world works. Why not hire based on attractiveness and promote based on blowjobs? This is reality and how the world works. ... alternatively, we could strive to make the world a better place.
That’s perfectly fine, imo?
There’s clearly a disadvantage to not having any meritocratic considerations during the hiring process and it will eventually come back to bite the hiring company. That said, everyone has free will and should be completely free to hire whomever they want for whatever reasons they want.
I think one people miss is that lack of interaction can be a form of harassment. >we routinely have cases where a young man is leading open labs as if they're a teacher themselves (in order to "wow" their female classmates, offer "private free tutoring sessions", etc). Some of the young students in my class take up these offers, and this further demoralizes other female students seeing this happen (i.e. only attracti…
I'm sorry for your situation but this is just ridiculous. You cannot ever harass someone through non-interaction, which is by definition aggresive and unwanted interaction. People complaining the women aren't being offered enough "private tutoring" in a post about how men offering women "private tutoring" being harassment. Being mildly autistic you can see why I don't date either gender with ridiculous sentiments lik…
>You cannot ever harass someone through non-interaction
Maybe not harass, but it's a form of discrimination -- only giving professional opportunities to people willing to fuck you is absolutely not kosher.
>Being mildly autistic you can see why I don't date either gender with ridiculous sentiments like these being blown around.
I'm also on the autistic spectrum, and I've never had an issue finding partners, and I doubt that complaints about tutoring are the reason your sex life has taken a pause.
According to one person anyway. We haven’t surveyed the class, correct?
> According to one person anyway. We haven’t surveyed the class, correct? No, according to the complainants, there has been no unwanted advances. IOW, the people who object to this have said that there have been no unwanted advances. Why are you assuming that poor behaviour won't be reported by the complainants when they complain ?
I'd argue that there have been numerous cases of illicit behavior coming out long after the fact, and that any number of factors could involve a victim being hesitant to report an incident of any specific individual, but even putting that aside, there's still the matter of the website itself. Did they have permission to use the data in this way, or were there terms that disallowed it being used for something like this? Did the students consent to their data being included in this database, and were they properly informed about what uses would and would not be allowed with that data? Did the actual content of the website alongside the data encourage any illicit behavior or lie about how it was obtained? Some of these might not fall on the side of illegality, but the details about what exactly this data is and where it came from is a bit vague (at least in the initial question; I didn't read through every response, so it's possible some later replies might shed light on this). Without knowing what jurisdiction the university is at, if it's public or private, or who at the university was involved with compiling and publishing the data, it seems plausible that there _might_ be something worth investigating from a legal perspective, and I feel like that would necessarily include looking at the actions of the students who made the website.
Nobody cares if college students try to date other students from their classes. It is weird when people take a class specifically because of that reason though. It is even weirder when the class in question is something that they have a very high skill level in specifically so that they will be able leverage that into some kind of situation that leads to dating. This is pretty cut and dry to me, I am not sure why so…
It's not surprising imo. If you don't go significantly out of your way to be in spaces where you might bump in to someone you'd date, it's unlikely to happen. "designated dating spaces" like apps and bars have largely been failures so people are returning to tradition of trying to bump in to people semi organically. I'm a gay guy so the situation is a little different/more level but I put a lot of effort in searching…
>You wouldn't consider it weird to join say a hiking club to make friends as the primary goal over just the hiking.
I'm queer. I think the issue in the OP is more like that one episode of Community where someone who's very advanced at pottery takes a pottery course -- nothing wrong with meeting people in a class. Nothing wrong with having people see your kindness as attractive because you do things like organize a study group.
The problem becomes if you only let someone like Jeff Winger learn from you, and turn away the Shirleys. (To keep with the "community" analogy :))
I agree there's nothing wrong with joining something to be social, the issue is hiding your skill level or purposefully competing below it...
I'm appalled that so many other commenters don't see an issue with such behavior in class: > number of female students have approached me, noting they are disgusted and uncomfortable with the amount of leching taking place > It's also demoralizing several of them, since we routinely have cases where a young man is leading open labs as if they're a teacher themselves (in order to "wow" their female classmates, offer "…
Is there not a chance one of the young men offering open labs or tutoring might, in fact, be intelligent, enthusiastic about the sciences and decent ?
I think it's a conflict of interest if someone is teaching/tutoring so they can sleep with their students, and that approach can result in unfortunate incentives for the tutor at the expense of their students.
I disagree that guys will only see results from self-improvement in two years; there are behavioral changes that should be mastered immediately. Learning to treat women with proper respect and still come across as attractive to them can be highly beneficial, and is not exactly something that society strives to teach. The earlier you master this, the better.
>Learning to treat women with proper respect and still come across as attractive to them The unfortunate thing is that not only is this totally opaque, but society actually gives instruction that doesn't work, i.e. bad advice. That's how we get 'nice guys' and pickup artists. Young men have an overwhelming need for intimacy that they're driven to satisfy and there. are. no. guides. on how to obtain it. I do pretty ok…
I might agree that the situation 20 years ago was this bad; but things have changed quite a bit. We now know a whole lot more as to how women generally relate to this sex and relationships thing - because they've been telling us first-hand! We have not exactly come to a general realization throughout society that there is such a thing as behaving and relating to others in a more attractive way, but we're not far from it either.
And we also know a lot more about what doesn't work. As it turns out, nice guys simply have no need to gaslight or bamboozle others into doing things they don't actually want, quite unlike the males in OP's story; they have way better things to care about. And the best part is that women can tell; these are not things you can fool anyone about for very long.
Because the people complaining aren’t reporting poor behavior, but your own admission?
> Because the people complaining aren’t reporting poor behavior, but your own admission? No, I said that the complainers who are complaining have NOT experienced poor behaviour, so what on earth makes you think that the poor behaviour must exist but is unreported?
I literally said, and have been saying the opposite.
I don't think that taking a class to get to know single women of your own age is disrespectful. Do we know they are objectifying? The post said this was about finding a future wife.
It’s disrespectful because it ignores the fact that the women are not there to date, but to learn. The men are getting in their way by showing off and offering disingenuous tutoring.
My wife told me when we started dating that she picked math in university to find a STEM boy (who was expected to get a high paying job. No math grad school for me). And yes, I helped her with her homework and with studying only because I was attracted to her and dating her. We're both happy with how that turned out.
Honestly assuming we send our kids to college (it's looking like a house and a trust fund will be cheaper by the time they're 18 if we're trying to be financially optimal), we'll definitely be telling them that finding their spouse is going to be the most important thing they could possibly do while there. Almost all of our two social groups are not married, and we probably wouldn't be either if we hadn't met in university (I almost certainly wouldn't be). It is probably the best opportunity for one of the most important events to set the course of your life. Absolutely people should treat it that way.
Emotions aside, why are we not allowed to discourage bad faith behaviour here? It doesn't have to be a legal rule, a social rule seems to exist already. We do the same for many other actions.
On HN? Or in this scenario? Either way I think you're allowed to discourage whatever you want (assuming you do it in a civil way). Not everyone's going to agree though. Some people are going to think/do things that you/I don't like. And sometimes there doesn't have to be some kind of resolution that comes out of it, some kind of trial and adjudication. Life can just go on regardless.
>Either way I think you're allowed to discourage whatever you want (assuming you do it in a civil way).
Yeah I think this is a good way to approach this. Absolutist views tend to be problematic. Society functions by breaking a lot of rules.