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D.C. free bus bill becomes law as zero-fare transit systems take off

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Re: D.C. free bus bill becomes law as zero-fare transit systems take off

#121

Post by supersour »

Broken_Hippo wrote: post #113
mixmastamyk wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like the car tax idea, but free attracts the destitute and mentally ill. Offer the working poor and looking a transit pass instead.

Oh, no, poor people might share the bus with me. Wouldn't want poor or mentally ill folks to do things like get to a doctors appointment, buy food, or visit family if they can't get there invisibly. /s. Now is when I'd like to remind you that you share spaces with mentally ill folks every single day and you don't notice a thing: A lot of destitute folks are disable and being destitute shouldn't mean that you have to…

I think the parent comment is referring the homeless population which is violent or too public in their drug use/paraphernalia.

Pick the right bus line in Vancouver. You will notice mentally ill, violent people, and it certainly discourages the public from using public transit. Now, will waiving a $2 fee change this meaningfully? Hard to day. But it's not helpful to ignore the problem.

Re: D.C. free bus bill becomes law as zero-fare transit systems take off

#122

Post by Rebelgecko »

dools wrote: post #112
mixmastamyk wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like the car tax idea, but free attracts the destitute and mentally ill. Offer the working poor and looking a transit pass instead.

If free attracts the "destitute and mentally ill", then probably we should be: 1) Not allowing anyone to be destitute and; 2) Also providing free and comprehensive mental health care

In my state there are both moral and legal roadblocks preventing that - except in extreme cases you can't force someone into treatment. You can write tickets for people who urinate or smoke on the trains but if someone has no assets there's really no point.

Re: D.C. free bus bill becomes law as zero-fare transit systems take off

#123

Post by midoridensha »

scrollaway wrote: post #29

To you all complaining about free transit, I invite you to actually look the next time you take the bus or metro at the amount of infrastructure dedicated to ticketing, validation and enforcement. I invite you to think about the amount of money spent on it. I invite you to think about the amount of time wasted by people on ticketing. The queues at ticket booths, people spending time researching what pass they want. S…

Over here in Japan, the transit systems are profitable, and there's no trouble with fare collection despite having more ridership than anywhere on the planet thanks to the IC cards normally used for storing money. It doesn't take any time at all to go through the gates with these; even during rush-hour they're not a problem, and it's been this way for many years now.

Complaints like yours ring hollow when solutions have already been devised and in use for a long time. If other places don't use these solutions because of NIH or whatever, that doesn't mean these complaints are valid.

Re: D.C. free bus bill becomes law as zero-fare transit systems take off

#124

Post by incone123 »

rippercushions wrote: post #60
ratchetbob wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

which cities have free or nominally priced transit? Certainly not Paris, anywhere in Germany, Switzerland, Amsterdam, etc.

Single fares in Switzerland are indeed extortionate, but there are a wide variety of passes that cut costs considerably, including one that gives you free travel throughout the entire country. https://www.sbb.ch/en/travelcards-and-tickets/railpasses/ga....

There's a pass that gives actual free travel, or just unlimited travel for a fixed price?

Re: D.C. free bus bill becomes law as zero-fare transit systems take off

#125

Post by dx034 »

mixmastamyk wrote: post #97
WirelessGigabit wrote: post #73

Taken the bus/metro in Los Angeles? Meth, knives, people taking a piss right there... My wife refuses to take any kind of public transportation alone.

If you want transportation free of sleepers and walking dead, there must be fares and gates. Otherwise you’ll end up with the horrors of the LA Metro… meth heads smoking up, stairs dripping with blood, etc.

Many European cities have low flat fares and no gates. And yet, they don't encounter the problems LA has. Maybe it's a problem of society and not public transport.

Re: D.C. free bus bill becomes law as zero-fare transit systems take off

#126

Post by Rebelgecko »

woodruffw wrote: post #72
loeg wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

~$2 fares are common in the US and I would not describe that as "free or nominally priced."

Okay, but do an in-kind comparison: can I take a public tram for ~$2 in similarly sized US cities? I can’t think of many; the first that comes to mind is Portland’s MAX, which is $2.50, has a smaller network with longer headways, and services a much larger metropolitan area as justification for its existence.

Not sure how the headway and network size compare, but Los Angeles light rail is $1.75. Good deal when you compare the cost of living to most of Europe!

Re: D.C. free bus bill becomes law as zero-fare transit systems take off

#127

Post by dx034 »

ahahahahah wrote: post #22
braingenious wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Free at point of use. It is paid for by taxpayers, like every other bit of public transit in the country.

Note that generally public transportation funding is already <25% covered by fares and so to the extent that you think "paid for by taxpayers" is positive or negative, this doesn't actually have that much impact on that aspect.

Where do you see that 25% number? According to Wikipedia, most systems around the world seem to be >50%.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Farebox_recovery_ratio

Re: D.C. free bus bill becomes law as zero-fare transit systems take off

#128

Post by supersour »

dools wrote: post #112
mixmastamyk wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like the car tax idea, but free attracts the destitute and mentally ill. Offer the working poor and looking a transit pass instead.

If free attracts the "destitute and mentally ill", then probably we should be: 1) Not allowing anyone to be destitute and; 2) Also providing free and comprehensive mental health care

I love this idea in theory, but recognize that you are moving the discussion from providing effective, safe, and equitable transportation towards solving homelessness.

Both issues are important, but in the context of this article one must ask, "what is best for the majority of public transit users?". It's certainly possible that a $2 rate improves quality or security meaningful ways.

The problem of "sketchy homeless and mentally ill people" is large enough that I personally prefer cycling over public transport when possible.

Re: D.C. free bus bill becomes law as zero-fare transit systems take off

#129

Post by dx034 »

KerrAvon wrote: post #106
rayiner wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fares revenues make up half of WMATA’s operating budget, which is on the low side. The London Tube fully covers its operating costs.

Tube fares are extremely expensive compared with other European transit systems.

And yet people happily use it, even in parts of London where it's feasible to go by car. One of the biggest reasons is probably that the tube has high frequency on all lines, much higher than most other cities.

Re: D.C. free bus bill becomes law as zero-fare transit systems take off

#130

Post by supersour »

pugworthy wrote: post #120

What gets me about the comments is that some of you who are the most negative are in big cities. Us little town folks with free bus service? We just don't have those negatives and we don't necessarily have the same negative opinions of it. At least if you are going to call it bad, preface your opinion with what your reality is, and acknowledge your reality isn't necessarily universal.

Very true. I actually quite enjoyed taking the bus in small town BC, I never felt uncomfortable by the other passengers.

The same can't be said about big city transit. Just look at the demographics of where homeless people flock to.

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