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Need help with students who've turned my class into a dating service

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Re: Need help with students who've turned my class into a dating service

#491
post #43

> This might be hard, as no unwanted advances are taking place. We simply have students excelling at the course, and drawing-in a crowd. I should've been more clear with my "leching" comment. Still, it seems harassing in nature. It seems increasingly that society demands a world where dating only happens during designated and approved dating times and venues, and outside those strictly delimited places, men are to be…

> ...society demands a world where dating only happens during designated and approved dating times and venues...

It's not so much "society", as it being groups with extreme contempt, misandry, and hostility towards heterosexual males, that have pushed a very distorted narrative. That is acting like all heterosexual males are a constant danger and threat, in which all women in their presence must feel uncomfortable and under continual harassment. Leaders and advocates of such groups with negative views about men, act like they speak for all other women, and are continually attempting to push these biased and actually hateful agendas.

So we get placed more into situations where any actions initiated by heterosexual males, is perceived by such groups as aggressive or predatory. Asking someone out for a date, asking women questions, heterosexual flirting... easily becomes demonized. Despite how such is unfair, illogical, and opposed to biology. It should be no more of a "threat" or "violation" for a man to ask a woman out, as a woman to ask a man or another woman out (note the included cases).

Furthermore, many heterosexual males are afraid to even ask women out, for fear of rejection or embarrassment. Lots of guys can't do it or seek advice. Asking out the opposite gender is not something that needs to be so tightly regulated, unless its truly a case where the person has repeatedly said no (thus actual harassment), is stalking, blackmail, extortion, etc... And in that context, women are equally capable of harassment, stalking, blackmail, etc...

> men are to behave as eunuchs, and all prospects of romance are to be extinguished.

There is a trick being played here, to get to that misandric destination that certain parties wish for. This is to stealthily and by defacto limit and restrict male rights, and give women extraordinary and special rights.

So, push the situation where only women would have the right or privilege to initiate the possibility of a date, with men or other women. Where if a heterosexual man attempts to do so with women, he would face the possibility and fear of punishment.

Think about what this teacher, who is so preoccupied with the dating lives of her students, is trying to enforce in her classroom. Looks like if she got her way, she could actively restrict the numbers of male heterosexual students in her class, for any half baked suspicions. Wants to control the popularity of where heterosexual males want to go. Then seek punishment or expulsion for any male heterosexual students that might of asked one of her female students (like she's their owner) on a date.

Re: Need help with students who've turned my class into a dating service

#492

I'm appalled that so many other commenters don't see an issue with such behavior in class: > number of female students have approached me, noting they are disgusted and uncomfortable with the amount of leching taking place > It's also demoralizing several of them, since we routinely have cases where a young man is leading open labs as if they're a teacher themselves (in order to "wow" their female classmates, offer "…

I think you're right about this. The male auditors are overdoing the whole showboating thing in a way that creates a bad experience for the rest of the students, and probably doesn't really help their romantic prospects either. Sensible women want to get to know friends in a gradual, natural fashion and perhaps be a little wowed in non-obvious ways. No one wants to be advertised to with "FREE private tutoring session…

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Re: Need help with students who've turned my class into a dating service

#493

I still have clear recollection of the 50:1 men-to-women ratio in my CS2xx classes and higher. Your odds weren't good if you were hoping to meet Mrs. Right. I imagine things have gotten better since. Still, seems like a fairly high effort low outcome place to meet someone who is likely not even receptive to advances in that context. Do colleges not offer many other opportunities for people to meet outside of class in…

> It's interesting that one of the highest-voted responses suggests bringing in the ten ton hammer of legal governmental involvement against a bunch of kids trying to score a date College students aren’t “kids” and it’s extremely disturbing that our society continues to infantilize teenagers and grownups and push the boundary of adulthood later and later. In the Jewish tradition the coming of age ritual for young men…

> there are no unwanted advances, but it's painfully obvious to some students of what's taking place

Auditing a class and showboating while making no unwanted advances seems pretty harmless.

Re: Need help with students who've turned my class into a dating service

#494

I'm appalled that so many other commenters don't see an issue with such behavior in class: > number of female students have approached me, noting they are disgusted and uncomfortable with the amount of leching taking place > It's also demoralizing several of them, since we routinely have cases where a young man is leading open labs as if they're a teacher themselves (in order to "wow" their female classmates, offer "…

There's a widespread lack of male role models, absentee fathers, and anything and everything male bashing. The ladies could be mentioning to the guys specific constructive feedback, because the guys probably don't know how they're failing or how they're making others feel. The surprising and shocking secret of being a ladies' man, is underwhelming and doesn't get press: being human and treating others as human accord…

It's not the classes's student's moral responsibility to teach these men. But it turns out that you are somewhat right in the sense that the professor and the answerers think that something student-let eventually has the most promise, to show the women that they can protect themselves by student-organized activities to draw attention to the issue.

Re: Need help with students who've turned my class into a dating service

#495

I'm appalled that so many other commenters don't see an issue with such behavior in class: > number of female students have approached me, noting they are disgusted and uncomfortable with the amount of leching taking place > It's also demoralizing several of them, since we routinely have cases where a young man is leading open labs as if they're a teacher themselves (in order to "wow" their female classmates, offer "…

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Re: Need help with students who've turned my class into a dating service

#496
post #483
post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a pretty weak hand really. It's not like they're in competition with the other students. They're also offering to help pass on that knowledge in exchange for attention from women. That's not a power move.

The post describes students "teaching" labs as though they are TA's. How is that not an attempt to take a position of power?

That's kind of a hall monitor position of power. Yeah, you appear to be in power but the first person to get annoyed with you is still going to stuff you in a locker. It shows these guys don't know what they're doing. You don't impress girls by showing off how much of a nerd you are. Been there tried that. It doesn't work.

Re: Need help with students who've turned my class into a dating service

#497

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you happen to be an intelligent and decent young man from a male-dominated major who legitimately likes helping others who are struggling to learn the subject you're passionate about, how would women in your dating pool, who find those personality traits attractive, discover those things about you?

Maybe they would notice you help whoever asks for it, not just attractive women, and by contrast they would think, "Hey, he seems decent, not like those creeps that only have tutoring sessions for hotties."

>Maybe they would notice

And how would she notice if you weren't in her class? The chances are extremely low compared to if you joined her class and made an effort to socialize with her.

Re: Need help with students who've turned my class into a dating service

#498

I'm appalled that so many other commenters don't see an issue with such behavior in class: > number of female students have approached me, noting they are disgusted and uncomfortable with the amount of leching taking place > It's also demoralizing several of them, since we routinely have cases where a young man is leading open labs as if they're a teacher themselves (in order to "wow" their female classmates, offer "…

> I'm appalled that so many other commenters don't see an issue with such behavior in class: >> No unwanted advances It seems very appalling when you focus on the bits you don't like and ignore the bits like "no unwanted advances".

I didn't ignore that, but chose to focus on the fact that other commenters have seemed to ignore all the problematic lines lines completely surrounding those three words. There can be only willing advances between the person making the advancing and the the person it is advanced on, but in the completely wrong environment can affect everyone else who has to be in an environment who has to be in the same environment. These surrounding lines spell out how such behavior affects everyone else. A later comment by the professor makes explicit the harm being done:

> Even worse, some women in the class seem oblivious to this or don't care, while the majority of them are insulted and hurt by this.

Re: Need help with students who've turned my class into a dating service

#499

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're right about this. The male auditors are overdoing the whole showboating thing in a way that creates a bad experience for the rest of the students, and probably doesn't really help their romantic prospects either. Sensible women want to get to know friends in a gradual, natural fashion and perhaps be a little wowed in non-obvious ways. No one wants to be advertised to with "FREE private tutoring session…

> The male auditors are overdoing the whole showboating thing in a way that creates a bad experience for the rest of the students, and probably doesn't really help their romantic prospects either. Sensible women want to get to know friends in a gradual, natural fashion and perhaps be a little wowed in non-obvious ways. They aren't looking for sensible women, they're looking for attractive women. IOW, it furthers thei…

Edit: Changed above, as can't reply to the below, as being restricted/censored.

> The young men have certain goals (like attracting a mate/partner/girlfriend), and trivialising their goals because the poster thinks they should have loftier goals (attracting a mate/partner/girlfriend of "better"[1] quality) is pointless and stupid.

We are in agreement on this point. I re-read the post and the one you were responding to.

Adults should be able to choose what is attractive to them, and not be restricted by what is only satisfactory to some opinionated and intruding outside 3rd party.

Re: Need help with students who've turned my class into a dating service

#500

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The subtext here is that women should be able to exist in the world without "unwanted" sexual attention being given towards them. The question is whether this is reasonable. Should men not seek dates? Should men not go where single women are to seek dates? Should men limit their efforts at getting dates only to "appropriate venues", where women's interest is explicit? How does the man's attractiveness factor into the…

There is also no real way to signal interest in being approached. Personally I wear a rainbow watch band in an attempt to signal this but I'm not aware of any typical way a straight person signals interest without being somewhat outgoing and making the first move which seems to be deeply disturbing to the commenters here.

For some reason reading your username after reading your comment made me crack up. I think your personality lines up.
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