Sexual loneliness: A neglected public health problem? • Hacker News Board

Re: Sexual loneliness: A neglected public health problem?

#481

Post by giraffe_lady » Thu, Jan 26, 2023, 6:51 PM UTC

matheusmoreira wrote: post #408

giraffe_lady wrote: post #351

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The tragic thing about incels and the broader online men's rights movements is that the pain is real, but they've rejected the most useful lens for understanding where it comes from and how to address it. Third wave feminism prominently addresses the origins and dangers of certain aspects of masculinity, diagnoses how they harm men, and proposes well thought out mitigations and alternatives. Bell hooks for example wr…

Of course they rejected it. Accepting feminism didn't result in them being accepted in return. Feminists can write a million books about toxic masculinity and it won't matter because those are the men that women actually have sex with. The sexual liberation of women is a major theme of feminism. Does that imply even so called "incels" will get some of that? No. On the contrary, they're even more marginalized now.

yep like that

Re: Sexual loneliness: A neglected public health problem?

#482

Post by LorenPechtel » Thu, Jan 26, 2023, 6:52 PM UTC

nkingsy wrote: post #241

spaniard89277 wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been running online communities for years and this, as far as I can see, factual. I've read somewhere, maybe multiple times, that most men are emotionally and sexually deprived. That sounds correct given the data I have. I'm ok looking and I feel like I can make women like me. I still struggle sometimes. Many of my friends do much worse than me. I have friends that I find intellectually stimulating, average-look…

In a past life I got pretty deep into trying to help guys like this. There's a whole industry around it peddling advice that ranges from effective (yet impossible to implement for a broken person) to counter-productive and evil. It's really very simple, but people just have massive amounts of negative programming that radiates out from them like a reverse pheromone. Those who are hungry do not eat. You can't fake it,…

Increasing numbers of people don't drink--which rules out bars. And you seem to be suggesting actions with a hookup as the desired objective--not of much use for those who desire a relationship rather than a hookup.

By "club" do you mean hobby type things? It's perennial advice but it has the serious flaw that to a large degree you encounter the same people over and over, most of whom are too young/too old/not available.

I'm married so I'm not looking but as a game I have paid attention to the suitability of those I get to know--and the number of relationship prospects approximates zero.

Re: Sexual loneliness: A neglected public health problem?

#483

Post by frognumber » Thu, Jan 26, 2023, 6:53 PM UTC

kelseyfrog wrote: post #140

frognumber wrote: post #24

I am happy about the study, since I think this is underresearched. However, I think Gini Index this is a horrible way to look at it. Regular sex is important, but regularly switching sex partners isn't really how I want to live my life. I don't want 50 lifetime partners, 38, 15, or even 12. I wanted one. That I have more than one is a sign of failure of a relationship each time, which is not a success. If I had my ch…

Right, and each of these automatically get red-flagged by women, which takes out of the dating pool, people who subscribe to them. Advocating for them is the social/relationship equivalent of rent-seeking behavior: rather than compete, change the competitive landscape.

That has not been my experience.

It's a difference in values. There are both men and women on both sides of the cultural divide. If anything, my experience is that there are more women on my side. The stereotype that women value commitment might be exaggerated, but there seems to be at least a kernel of truth there.

Re: Sexual loneliness: A neglected public health problem?

#484

Post by jacobsenscott » Thu, Jan 26, 2023, 6:53 PM UTC

tasuki wrote: post #447

wonderwonder wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with this, remove school, college and work and what is left? Not much. Maybe a house of worship if you are religous. Remote work while it provides benefits to people; especially those already in a relationship and with kids, has its costs. Online college is an option now.

> remove school, college and work and what is left? Not much. What is left? Literally every other social activity one engages in?

But where do you find people to form clubs or whatever with? Work/school/office. Also covid wiped a lot of these out and it will take some time for them to re-appear

Re: Sexual loneliness: A neglected public health problem?

#485

Post by seydor » Thu, Jan 26, 2023, 6:53 PM UTC

godelski wrote: post #440

seydor wrote: post #400

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> throw people together in the same space and wait - people will start hooking up. No app can provide this I would contest this. Don't (EDIT: i m talking about social network apps) apps do exactly this, on a global scale? They bring people closer at all times, have regularity, and even have silly competitions, self-promotion , and all ways for people to 'hook up' with each other. Of course, in any physical space ther…

What the parent is really talking about is that people in close proximity for extended periods are going through shared experiences. If you spend time with people and experience similar things then you will start to form emotional bonds with them. The parent could have also replaced partners with friends and the statement would hold true for the same reasons. On the other hand, let's do the same analogy and replace p…

I was thinking of social networks mostly. Tinder is an antisocial, hookup app

Re: Sexual loneliness: A neglected public health problem?

#486

Post by zozbot234 » Thu, Jan 26, 2023, 6:54 PM UTC

nkingsy wrote: post #241

spaniard89277 wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been running online communities for years and this, as far as I can see, factual. I've read somewhere, maybe multiple times, that most men are emotionally and sexually deprived. That sounds correct given the data I have. I'm ok looking and I feel like I can make women like me. I still struggle sometimes. Many of my friends do much worse than me. I have friends that I find intellectually stimulating, average-look…

In a past life I got pretty deep into trying to help guys like this. There's a whole industry around it peddling advice that ranges from effective (yet impossible to implement for a broken person) to counter-productive and evil. It's really very simple, but people just have massive amounts of negative programming that radiates out from them like a reverse pheromone. Those who are hungry do not eat. You can't fake it,…

Just understanding what many women are generally attracted to is a huge differentiator, worth quite a few points on the conventional attractiveness scale. If you're reading this, you probably come across to others as nice and inoffensive, which is actually a very good thing! But you do generally need to show off a little bit of a "wilder" side that's been properly tamed and made harmless, in a way that she can intuit. It's a big component of flirting of any sort.

Re: Sexual loneliness: A neglected public health problem?

#487

Post by avmich » Thu, Jan 26, 2023, 6:54 PM UTC

damascus wrote: post #340

giantg2 wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, mindset is a huge component to this. I think the media has exasperated the problem through idealized fantasy which does not match reality. I think people tend to have high expectations of a match, but don't hold themselves to the same standards. As an example, I've had fat/obese friends say they wouldn't date a fat girl... Or friends that expect the man to pay for everything like it's 1950 and make grand gestur…

Just like porn ruins actual sex for so many young men, romantic movies of all types ruin relationships for so many young women. Smut novels sell millions of copies a year to women of all ages so even if women intellectually know its 'not real' it becomes their default internal vocabulary. Re: paying for everything. A lot of women want to step outside of their own traditional gender role but have a man firmly inside h…

There's a somewhat well-known series on HBO in USA, called Game of Thrones. A character there, Tyrion Lannister, who's a kind of a nerd, describes how he lost virginity in staged encounter with a paid woman.

It could be hard to figure out what would be better - this kind of initiation with associated large risk of getting emotionally attached to the paid person, or staying virgin for years and years, having no comparative to peers experience and somewhat falling more behind, so having to dig out from deeper and deeper pit. So I wouldn't with certainty recommend looking for paid services to get initial experience, even though that could - not always - simplify subsequent interactions. Even though such an approach could be sufficiently different for men vs. women.

Re: Sexual loneliness: A neglected public health problem?

#488

Post by godelski » Thu, Jan 26, 2023, 6:55 PM UTC

zozbot234 wrote: post #449

godelski wrote: post #428

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> /at the office (40 years). With the move to remote work in many places we've cut off the office part There might be another factor here, that office relationships are far more taboo than they used to be. I'm not saying harass your office mates, but if two people click they click. Like you're saying, it isn't that the office is a place "to look" for a partner, but rather that it simply happens because you build emot…

The problem is not what happens when two people click, but what if the relationship goes south. Do you really want that former partner you might hate as your coworker, or your boss? Or your subordinate, whom you're required to treat fairly, as a matter of basic business ethics? How many people would manage to achieve this and be trusted to?

In addition to what Jacob said, it is also an important social skill to learn to interact with people you have bad blood with. There is a sign of maturity to not run away from your problems. That's all this is doing really. As long as the two people aren't forced to have frequent and sustained close proximity (working together on the same projects) then this shouldn't be an issue.

Re: Sexual loneliness: A neglected public health problem?

#489

Post by yieldcrv » Thu, Jan 26, 2023, 6:55 PM UTC

> In theory, online dating could provide an efficient way to find a partner. However, online dating divides people heavily into winners and losers – perhaps even more so than traditional dating.

Another reminder to delete your dating profiles and then delete the dating apps! Don't let anyone gaslight you into suggesting your selection of photos are the problem, the jury has returned and the verdict is out.

You might think that just keeping those feelers out there will benefit you in a wider network, but inactive use of a dating app will decrease the visibility of your profile at all, and undiscerning use of a dating app trying to match with other unattractive/unpopular people will also decrease the visibility of your profile to only the people in your same level of unpopularity. The hot people are never evaluating your profile because the app won't even let them see you, its way worse than just imagining their inbox is inundated as that's just the next hurdle.

Delete it, you'll have to modify your lifestyle and schedule to do things that are social and interesting just like in the before times.

Re: Sexual loneliness: A neglected public health problem?

#490

Post by DonHopkins » Thu, Jan 26, 2023, 6:55 PM UTC

the_only_law wrote: post #319

rightbyte wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The only advice I've told them is to get out of any online stuff and hit bars. They need your wife to bring her single friends to the bar. If they have a hard time reaching out to women hitting bars without friends won't help them much.

For some reason at the bar people don’t ever talk to me until I’ve been drinking for so long I sound like an idiot.

Practice sounding like an idiot while sober! ;)