Sexual loneliness: A neglected public health problem? • Hacker News Board

Re: Sexual loneliness: A neglected public health problem?

#411

Post by dangond » Thu, Jan 26, 2023, 6:23 PM UTC

willmadden wrote: post #315

dangond wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also feel that we'd be better off as a society if we emphasized and encouraged building strong inter-personal relationships over "pursuing a career", but appealing to tradition isn't a great argument. Building a strong social sense of unity and cohesion is good enough for me. On the other hand, "those values exist for a reason" is just as convincing as "we got rid of those values for a reason". Our societies also g…

>Our societies also grew a lot with the help of slavery and child labor I'm not advocating for slavery or child labor. I'm advocating for prioritizing healthy pair bonding and acknowledging that this is more likely to happen earlier in life. The "population crisis" in Japan and other countries in the West is self inflicted. We actively promote decisions that do not lead to healthy families for the majority of people.…

I wasn't implying you were advocating for that, I agree with you, I was just pointing out that justifying your position by appealing to tradition is not helpful in convincing others (though it is great for virtue signaling).

On the Japan note, I actually did an internship in Japan over the summer a few years back and the work-life balance I saw there was actually depressing. Lots has been written about Japanese work culture (and I've heard Korean work culture is similar), but thankfully, I don't see the US quite getting to that point. If anything, we're pushing firmly in the opposite direction. Most people I personally know (in software engineering) hold a healthy work-life balance and are all the happier for it.

Japan's issues with reproduction seem to mostly stem from that, but the source of the problem in the US to me seems to be either overly-high expectations or over-correcting cynicism, both influenced by pop culture. On one hand, we have groups who believe fervently that "perfection" as seen in movies is realistic and are disappointed constantly by reality. On the other hand, people who have grown disillusioned with the world see everything as a chance for disappointment and avoid commitment to anything, leading to self-sabotage.

Re: Sexual loneliness: A neglected public health problem?

#412

Post by willcipriano » Thu, Jan 26, 2023, 6:23 PM UTC

nannal wrote: post #296

willcipriano wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those 10% dudes are smart enough not to settle for a 90% woman for more than a few dates when they can pull a new one off the app at a moments notice. In the end they are the only winners in this situation.

Tinder appears to be doing fairly well given it's their situation that they've engineered.

Fair enough, trendy restaurants and bars also probably do well.

Re: Sexual loneliness: A neglected public health problem?

#413

Post by godelski » Thu, Jan 26, 2023, 6:23 PM UTC

formerly_proven wrote: post #163

snowpid wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"lots of countries" To my knowledge only Germany.

There's a bunch more and coincidentally most of them are also leading countries for human trafficking.

I'm looking at Europe and I'm a bit confused how this would be a causal relationship.

9 countries have legalized prostitution: Germany, Netherlands, Austria, Switzerland, Greece, Hungary, Latvia, and Turkey.[0]

Human trafficking, in order of severity, is most linked to: Netherlands, UK, Romania, France, Germany, Bulgaria, Italy, Poland, Hungry, Portugal.

From this list alone (these tend to follow power laws) there's a higher correlation with being a Bloc State than legalized prostitution. Unsurprising to see UK and Germany here considering they are not only the most wealthy countries, but also the most populous. Netherlands... well I got no answer there but this is just a quick look.

Just given this quick look, I'd be shocked to learn that legalization of prostitution was a major causal factor in human trafficking.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitution_in_Europe

[1] https://www.statista.com/chart/4947/the-eus-hotspots-for-peo...

Re: Sexual loneliness: A neglected public health problem?

#414

Post by scns » Thu, Jan 26, 2023, 6:24 PM UTC

goodpoint wrote: post #235

wyager wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As with many sexually dimorphic behaviors in humans (and mammals in general), this flows from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variability_hypothesis You can have a stable/growing population with only 1 male per n>1 females. So, the evolutionarily optimal strategy is to crank up trait variance in males and have females select only the top 1/n males (hand-wavily speaking). Most modern human cultures suppressed this dynam…

> evolutionarily optimal strategy Gender roles (and sexism) are primarily cultural. If you look through history there has been matriarchal and patriarchal societies. Monogamous and polygamous and so on in many combinations. Humans sexuality is very unique compared to other animals and, respectfully, we should try not to play armchair Darwin. There are very good lectures from prof. Sapolsky on youtube on the topic. Hu…

I second Sapolsky, fun to watch, dry humour.

Re: Sexual loneliness: A neglected public health problem?

#415

Post by mixmastamyk » Thu, Jan 26, 2023, 6:24 PM UTC

frognumber wrote: post #24

I am happy about the study, since I think this is underresearched. However, I think Gini Index this is a horrible way to look at it. Regular sex is important, but regularly switching sex partners isn't really how I want to live my life. I don't want 50 lifetime partners, 38, 15, or even 12. I wanted one. That I have more than one is a sign of failure of a relationship each time, which is not a success. If I had my ch…

Not going to imply you need dozens of partners but no, you need at least a few. Like every dance partner produces a wildly different outcome so does a relationship. You learn a lot about yourself in the process. Enough that it should be considered a prerequisite to a mature relationship.

Re: Sexual loneliness: A neglected public health problem?

#416

Post by kragen » Thu, Jan 26, 2023, 6:24 PM UTC

yodsanklai wrote: post #227

fxtentacle wrote: post #15

I love how the article compares the unequal distribution of sex partners with the unequal distribution of wealth, because in my opinion that might be part of the cause. I would predict that being able to afford a nice apartment in a good area close to date locations will easily 10x your sex chances. There have been other studies about young men struggling to find jobs that pay well enough for them to become financial…

> I would predict that being able to afford a nice apartment in a good area close to date locations will easily 10x your sex chances. This matches my experience. But overall, location is extremely important. I used to date quite a lot, and depending on the place, I could find dates extremely easily, or it could be virtually impossible. But one thing I understood after I turned 40. The number one criteria is age! It g…

What is your gender? I'm 46 and male, and more and more women (my preferred gender!) seem to be attracted to me over time, though surely at some point that trend will go into reverse.

I've heard a lot of women around my age suffering from the opposite trend.

Re: Sexual loneliness: A neglected public health problem?

#417

Post by dangond » Thu, Jan 26, 2023, 6:25 PM UTC

seydor wrote: post #400

jacobsenscott wrote: post #116

The classic formula for hooking up is time and proximity - throw people together in the same space and wait - people will start hooking up. No app can provide this - they are designed with the exact opposite scenario in mind. This is why people meet in high school (4 years)/college(4 years)/at the office (40 years). With the move to remote work in many places we've cut off the office part - where people had the most…

> throw people together in the same space and wait - people will start hooking up. No app can provide this I would contest this. Don't (EDIT: i m talking about social network apps) apps do exactly this, on a global scale? They bring people closer at all times, have regularity, and even have silly competitions, self-promotion , and all ways for people to 'hook up' with each other. Of course, in any physical space ther…

I think they were talking specifically about dating apps. You either go on a date right away or never talk to the person again. There is no room to slowly build a relationship after "bumping into each other" over time.

Re: Sexual loneliness: A neglected public health problem?

#418

Post by dragonwriter » Thu, Jan 26, 2023, 6:25 PM UTC

GrigoriyMikh wrote: post #403

idontpost wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At minimum I think most people (the bottom ~90% dating-success-wise, both men and women) in our society would be better off with arranged marriages compared to our current cultural hellscape. The problem is no one thinks they're in the bottom 90% of anything.

Agree. Arranged marriages worked for generations. And to me it looks like a perfect mechanism to tame hormone-induced young people, who, en masse, hurt not only themselves but whole society.

> Arranged marriages worked for generations.

Existed, sure. Whether they “work” or not is... well, for most of history no one was gathering data, but arranged marriage still exists now, and there is evidence linking it to higher rates of suicide, for women particularly.

Re: Sexual loneliness: A neglected public health problem?

#419

Post by avmich » Thu, Jan 26, 2023, 6:25 PM UTC

seydor wrote: post #400

jacobsenscott wrote: post #116

The classic formula for hooking up is time and proximity - throw people together in the same space and wait - people will start hooking up. No app can provide this - they are designed with the exact opposite scenario in mind. This is why people meet in high school (4 years)/college(4 years)/at the office (40 years). With the move to remote work in many places we've cut off the office part - where people had the most…

> throw people together in the same space and wait - people will start hooking up. No app can provide this I would contest this. Don't (EDIT: i m talking about social network apps) apps do exactly this, on a global scale? They bring people closer at all times, have regularity, and even have silly competitions, self-promotion , and all ways for people to 'hook up' with each other. Of course, in any physical space ther…

> I would contest this. Don't apps do exactly this, on a global scale? They bring people closer at all times, have regularity, and even have silly competitions, self-promotion , and all ways for people to 'hook up' with each other.

No. "Same place" means here "same people, repeatedly over prolonged periods of time". Dating apps are, AFAIK, not making same people to keep in contact "until the spark comes".

Re: Sexual loneliness: A neglected public health problem?

#420

Post by 71a54xd » Thu, Jan 26, 2023, 6:26 PM UTC

dashdot wrote: post #128

71a54xd wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a healthy dating life outside of apps, but yeah - I think women understanding how difficult and dramatically different online dating is for men in comparison to women will never truly be accepted or taken seriously by women.

It's definitely different. But difficult is subjective. Personally, I prefer the experience as a male. Instead of getting flooded with goofs, I can focus on a small amount of matches.

I think the most damaging reality of these apps is when a man who himself thinks he's low-value and doesn't understand how to improve only gets a few matches from the algo of women who are below average attractiveness.

I'm going to get flamed for this but in general I think it's right to assume that the average woman in 2022 is less attractive than the average man, BMI / height stats support this.

This outcome generally signals to at-risk men (in terms of mental state) that women they would find attractive have all swiped left on them only leaving below average or physically unfit women. It's also entirely likely that they might just not be desire-able on dating apps and in fact, are only matched with people who don't have standards. That said, I think standards are important on both sides AND I've had men far more attractive than me also encounter a situation of only having a handful of matches even in NYC.