Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Evidence that Adani Group has engaged in stock manipulation and accounting fraud

hindenburgresearch.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

181–190 of 230 posts

Re: Evidence that Adani Group has engaged in stock manipulation and accounting fraud

#181

Post by MagnumOpus »

adaml_623 wrote: post #170
Thorrez wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My naive understanding: In a short you borrow then sell immediately. If the company disappears you keep the money from the sale (which you already made) and never have to return what you borrowed.

I agree with you 99.8%. I think there would be a clause in any short contract where if you were unable to provide the stock at the end then you would be liable to pay the cash equivalent. If the stock had "gone to the moon" you would be bankrupt but if the stock had gone to zero then your payment would be zero (or maybe miniscule)

There is no such clause, and yes you would have to figure out how to obtain the delisted stock from other holders (who are generally not friendly towards you).

Re: Evidence that Adani Group has engaged in stock manipulation and accounting fraud

#182

Post by dmurray »

djbusby wrote: post #137
skizm wrote: post #68

If these companies assets or stocks go to zero or are locked due to fraud or something that makes the actual public stocks untradable, how do you get out of a short position? Borrowing and selling the stock means you can’t get it back to return to the original owner, and buying put options means you can’t sell the stock to the contract holder. Do you have to get out before it gets completely vaporized?

If you buy a PUT option on a stock, at a low strike (far OTM) as the stock is tanking your PUT becomes more valuable and you can sell that. If the stock is near zero and you have a contract to sell at $5 - that's profit.

But the put option will be hedged by options market makers taking a (net) short position in the stock.

So in so far as you have technical concerns about the risks of not getting completely paid on your short position if you have a borrow on a delisted bankrupt company whose shares are tied up in litigation, the market maker will have the same concerns about the same arcane risks and will pass the cost on to you in the form of a worse price on your option.

It might still be a better way for you to make this trade - the options trader has a whole settlement team to figure this out - but it's a service you're paying for.

Re: Evidence that Adani Group has engaged in stock manipulation and accounting fraud

#183

Post by [deleted] »

kamaal wrote: post #128
livueta wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It doesn't even have to be a direct payout, there are always 'projects' you can give and pay them some 1000% extra money compared what it would otherwise cost. In other words a government(tax funded) bailout is easily doable and will be done, when the need arises. In many ways the party is just giving money to itself(Electoral bonds). I'm reminded of this: https://www.economist.com/asia/2022/12/20/can-indias-riches…

India's case is unfortunately a lot more worse. The reason why this sort of corruption gets an easy pass is because the public is not necessarily against corruption. They like to imagine themselves as temporarily embarrassed 'millionaires' type of section. While the discussion is always on the lines corruption being bad, its only used in the context of looking better. Pretty much everyone wants a government job, or a…

[deleted]

Re: Evidence that Adani Group has engaged in stock manipulation and accounting fraud

#184

Post by drexlspivey »

lmm wrote: post #146
thefreeman wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But if the stock goes to zero and you are shorting it the trade was massively profitable. why would you then be at risk of a margin call?

If trading is halted or it's delisted, how can you prove the value of the stock is zero?

You don’t have to “prove” anything, you already got the money

Re: Evidence that Adani Group has engaged in stock manipulation and accounting fraud

#185

Post by fakedang »

trustingtrust wrote: post #111

The Ambanis are actually not very different from the Adanis, just better at hiding. Hindenburg might have take a short position based on numbers but its likely that as long as the current government stays in power its unlikely these two giants (whether they are really giants or no) will change as governments play a big role in such things. Like someone pointed out, it's more likely that their cons will outlast Hinden…

Mukesh Ambani changed the face of Indian telecom with Jio and its novel pricing model. Not to mention, Reliance has tons of businesses with actual real value, real history and real employees. Mukesh Ambani plays along with both the parties.

Gautam Adani is a Gujarati impex trader who won the lottery when his pony won the parliamentary race.

I would argue both families are extremely different, even if they seem culturally similar on the outside. That being said, I would say there are parallels to Gautam Adani and Dhirubhai Ambani (Mukesh's father, for those ootl).

Re: Evidence that Adani Group has engaged in stock manipulation and accounting fraud

#186

Post by lmm »

drexlspivey wrote: post #184
lmm wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If trading is halted or it's delisted, how can you prove the value of the stock is zero?

You don’t have to “prove” anything, you already got the money

You're still stuck paying borrow fees and posting collateral, potentially forever.

Re: Evidence that Adani Group has engaged in stock manipulation and accounting fraud

#188

Post by throwayyy479087 »

qikInNdOutReply wrote: post #171

Ah, the guns of navarone of the indian protectioned industry versus the ships of international capital gang, what a battle. Surely, they will try to subvert the indian government and take over local giants to establish a construct similar to the ccp to engage in rampant proxy colonialism.

Say what you will about the CCP, but they are NOT a colony.

Re: Evidence that Adani Group has engaged in stock manipulation and accounting fraud

#189

Post by ankit70 »

wmf wrote: post #84
ajross wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That was quite a bit easier to digest, though. Can someone give me a more summarized version? I gave up after the ninth or tenth bullet item. Who's being defrauded and how?

Any shareholder in this fiasco who isn't a member of the family is the proverbial sucker at the table. Also, anyone who's lending money against inflated shares is going to lose everything.

Looks like Majority of the holding (72%) is by the promoters for one of the Company - Adani Enterprises Ltd. Lot of individual shareholders (Public) got greedy and started buying since last year. [1]

[1] https://www.screener.in/company/ADANIENT/consolidated/#share...

Post reply on HN