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NYC jails want to ban physical mail, then privatize scanning of digital versions

theintercept.com

151–160 of 410 posts

Re: NYC jails want to ban physical mail, then privatize scanning of digital versions

#151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of the entire body of porn in existence, is it closer to 2% or 51% that is trafficking-implicated? Is "some"? Yes. Is "most"? I seriously doubt it.

[flagged]

The same logic applies to industrial farming, at least in USA. Literal slave labor produces a bunch of the food that we eat and export. It probably isn't >50% though. This is a really interesting ethical argument though. How exploitative does an industry need to be before we'll consider it unacceptable?

Re: NYC jails want to ban physical mail, then privatize scanning of digital versions

#152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 12+ years of incarceration in the federal system. His crime was armed robbery, first offense, no one was injured, and he profited a grand total of $35,000. No one was harmed. But the crime involved threat of death. So threatening to kill at least one person is a pretty serious crime. It’s good that no one was killed, but definitely the intent to kill for personal gain was part of the reason for such a lengthy sente…

Have to agree. We punish violent crime and corruption lightly; nonviolent crime inhumanely unforgivingly. If there was no violence, threat of violence, fraud or corruption, the limit should be two years. If there was, the minimum should be much higher.

Because of the mandatory guidelines at the time (which have since been declared unconstitutional) any felony committed while in possession of a firearm federally had a 15 year minimum with no discretion for the judge.

Re: NYC jails want to ban physical mail, then privatize scanning of digital versions

#153
post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even though I'm not a fan of private prisons, I wonder what would happen if they had a contract that gave bonuses for every year a former inmate stayed out of jail? Maybe that's already been tried.

Suddenly prisons are trying to incarcerate the factually innocent, since they're the least likely to "re-offend."

This is why I love HN. You've taken a really nice idea and identified exactly how it will be abused by awful people.

Re: NYC jails want to ban physical mail, then privatize scanning of digital versions

#154
post #81

I feel like the prison system is the victim of perverse incentives. The goal given to them is "house this person securely for a specific length of time at the lowest cost possible ". They are rewarded for cutting costs. But the total cost we pay is the cost to imprison this person the second and third time when they re-offend. It's the policing costs when they're homeless because they can't find housing or get a job.…

Going a step further, we can reduce costs by funding social services that help prevent people from ending up in prison in the first place. I agree with your assessment of our Calvinist thinking.

It will make more sense once you realize the judicial system, cops, prisons etc demand their tribute and if less people are breaking the current laws more will have to be invented or prison sentences made longer.

Government apparatuses don't shrink in size. This is why the war on drugs started after prohibition, Henry Anslinger had to go after the evil marijuana. If people stop committing crimes we'll just have to invent more.

Re: NYC jails want to ban physical mail, then privatize scanning of digital versions

#155
post #81

I feel like the prison system is the victim of perverse incentives. The goal given to them is "house this person securely for a specific length of time at the lowest cost possible ". They are rewarded for cutting costs. But the total cost we pay is the cost to imprison this person the second and third time when they re-offend. It's the policing costs when they're homeless because they can't find housing or get a job.…

Victim isn't the right word because none of it is accidental. It's intentional design dating all the way back to 13th amendment which states. "The Thirteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution abolished slavery and involuntary servitude, except as punishment for a crime. " My brother in law was released recently from 12+ years of incarceration in the federal system. His crime was armed robbery, first offense…

there's someone close to me in prison for murder. for me, there's no getting around what they did. at the same time, i've come in contact with the criminal justice system through them, and there's also no getting around what it is: a disgusting and irredeemable machine of exploitation. i didn't always used to see it that way, but now i know better.

Re: NYC jails want to ban physical mail, then privatize scanning of digital versions

#156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 12+ years of incarceration in the federal system. His crime was armed robbery, first offense, no one was injured, and he profited a grand total of $35,000. No one was harmed. But the crime involved threat of death. So threatening to kill at least one person is a pretty serious crime. It’s good that no one was killed, but definitely the intent to kill for personal gain was part of the reason for such a lengthy sente…

I fully agree he earned punishment and it was a serious crime. (he says the gun was never loaded but that's neither here nor there). My question is the scope and breadth of the punishment and whether the system is about restitution and rehabilitation or pure punitive action. How do people come out after 10+ years having received no training, support or rehabilitation and step into a completely changed society from wh…

> How do people come out after 10+ years having received no training, support or rehabilitation and step into a completely changed society from when they went in.

Completely agreed. And it's not just that -- ex-prisoners also come out without any social network other than what they may have gained among prisoners, and they face extreme social stigma that makes finding work difficult even if they had the skills and connections.

Re: NYC jails want to ban physical mail, then privatize scanning of digital versions

#157
Every time they try to do this, part of the effects are to ban prisoners from receiving books. If you can't receive physical mail... how do you get books to read?

Once they remember this is a thing (and that the pesky first ammendment even for prisoners probably means they can't just ban all reading material), they say that prisoners have to read only "e-reader" books from approved vendors at inflated prices and limited selection -- or if they are lucky, they can still get physical books from only approved vendors at inflated prices and limited selection. (the latter which prisons are always trying to do even before/without limiting paper mail too).

Not being able to receive mail is bad enough, but the consequences on receiving books double it down. One of the few avenues to self-improvement, education, or even just recreation prisoners have.

The way we approach prisons are insane. We take people who have done something from their worst selves, and put them in an environment which seems almost designed to force them to continue to practice being their worst selves, with no other paths available.

Re: NYC jails want to ban physical mail, then privatize scanning of digital versions

#158
post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even though I'm not a fan of private prisons, I wonder what would happen if they had a contract that gave bonuses for every year a former inmate stayed out of jail? Maybe that's already been tried.

That’s never going to happen when 99% of places refuse to hire ex cons, or if they do at all only for the most unpleasant minimum wage “jobs”.

Well, what if the ex-con's former prison had a bond on them- if this person ends up committing a crime against your business, you get the full costs covered, less 10%.

The prison would be incentivized to do this so as to help prevent recidivism. They'd also be incentivized to get that person the help they need so they don't commit crimes and can do the job too.

Re: NYC jails want to ban physical mail, then privatize scanning of digital versions

#159
post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even though I'm not a fan of private prisons, I wonder what would happen if they had a contract that gave bonuses for every year a former inmate stayed out of jail? Maybe that's already been tried.

Suddenly prisons are trying to incarcerate the factually innocent, since they're the least likely to "re-offend."

But prisons don’t incarcerate people? They aren’t the ones taking decisions on who goes in there.

Re: NYC jails want to ban physical mail, then privatize scanning of digital versions

#160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Yes, please. I’m pretty sure Calvinism says that everybody is corrupted by sin (not just prisoners) and that everybody is in need of God’s grace. There’s certainly nothing about celebrating when something bad happens to somebody.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unconditional_election
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