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NYC jails want to ban physical mail, then privatize scanning of digital versions

theintercept.com

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Re: NYC jails want to ban physical mail, then privatize scanning of digital versions

#141

Post by aqme28 »

Rebelgecko wrote: post #112
mabbo wrote: post #81

I feel like the prison system is the victim of perverse incentives. The goal given to them is "house this person securely for a specific length of time at the lowest cost possible ". They are rewarded for cutting costs. But the total cost we pay is the cost to imprison this person the second and third time when they re-offend. It's the policing costs when they're homeless because they can't find housing or get a job.…

Even though I'm not a fan of private prisons, I wonder what would happen if they had a contract that gave bonuses for every year a former inmate stayed out of jail? Maybe that's already been tried.

Suddenly prisons are trying to incarcerate the factually innocent, since they're the least likely to "re-offend."

Re: NYC jails want to ban physical mail, then privatize scanning of digital versions

#142

Post by danuker »

darkarmani wrote: post #140
Rebelgecko wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even though I'm not a fan of private prisons, I wonder what would happen if they had a contract that gave bonuses for every year a former inmate stayed out of jail? Maybe that's already been tried.

Evasion training. How to stay out of jail (without changing your life).

Couple this with police abuse, and only honest citizens will end up being arrested.

How Kafkaesque.

Re: NYC jails want to ban physical mail, then privatize scanning of digital versions

#144

Post by D13Fd »

danuker wrote: post #136
D13Fd wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article is about prison mail. It has nothing to do with police officers and does not mention the "government monopoly on violence."

Digitized mail is one more straw on the camel's back. It is an example of the deeper issue: the prison-industrial complex going backwards on rehabilitation, because it is following the bad incentives written into law. Meanwhile, in Norway, the incarceration rate is 10x lower, while the 2-year recidivism is about 20% instead of the US's 50-60% [1]. [1] - https://web.archive.org/web/20100509171347/http://www.time.c...…

I agree with all of that (except maybe the "another idea" that was added via your edit). The U.S. prison system is in need of deep reform and this article is another great example of why. It's a completely misguided proposal that puts yet another private and profit-driven entity in a position of power over prisoners, extracting money from them and providing little if any value to the system.

The article still has nothing to do with police departments, though.

Re: NYC jails want to ban physical mail, then privatize scanning of digital versions

#145

Post by _trampeltier »

TaylorAlexander wrote: post #97
mabbo wrote: post #81

I feel like the prison system is the victim of perverse incentives. The goal given to them is "house this person securely for a specific length of time at the lowest cost possible ". They are rewarded for cutting costs. But the total cost we pay is the cost to imprison this person the second and third time when they re-offend. It's the policing costs when they're homeless because they can't find housing or get a job.…

Going a step further, we can reduce costs by funding social services that help prevent people from ending up in prison in the first place. I agree with your assessment of our Calvinist thinking.

In Germany are about 1/3 people in prison because they used a train or bus without ticket. If you can't pay you will end up in prison. Imagine how much money this does cost.

Re: NYC jails want to ban physical mail, then privatize scanning of digital versions

#146

Post by LorenPechtel »

prepend wrote: post #120
jeffwask wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Victim isn't the right word because none of it is accidental. It's intentional design dating all the way back to 13th amendment which states. "The Thirteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution abolished slavery and involuntary servitude, except as punishment for a crime. " My brother in law was released recently from 12+ years of incarceration in the federal system. His crime was armed robbery, first offense…

> 12+ years of incarceration in the federal system. His crime was armed robbery, first offense, no one was injured, and he profited a grand total of $35,000. No one was harmed. But the crime involved threat of death. So threatening to kill at least one person is a pretty serious crime. It’s good that no one was killed, but definitely the intent to kill for personal gain was part of the reason for such a lengthy sente…

I don't think he's objecting to the sentence, but the financial aspects--and I agree. Put somebody in jail and the basics of life should be provided. I don't mind commissary accounts for luxuries, but the basics should cost $0. And I include communication in that.

Treating prisoners as captive markets to be bled is not good for society.

Re: NYC jails want to ban physical mail, then privatize scanning of digital versions

#147

Post by TylerE »

Rebelgecko wrote: post #112
mabbo wrote: post #81

I feel like the prison system is the victim of perverse incentives. The goal given to them is "house this person securely for a specific length of time at the lowest cost possible ". They are rewarded for cutting costs. But the total cost we pay is the cost to imprison this person the second and third time when they re-offend. It's the policing costs when they're homeless because they can't find housing or get a job.…

Even though I'm not a fan of private prisons, I wonder what would happen if they had a contract that gave bonuses for every year a former inmate stayed out of jail? Maybe that's already been tried.

That’s never going to happen when 99% of places refuse to hire ex cons, or if they do at all only for the most unpleasant minimum wage “jobs”.

Re: NYC jails want to ban physical mail, then privatize scanning of digital versions

#148

Post by indymike »

D13Fd wrote: post #104
indymike wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The OP is talking about why these kinds of things exist.

> The OP is talking about why these kinds of things exist. No they are not: >jails are powerful in all the wrong ways. . . . This is what corrupted power looks like. . . . Police departments are often the same. The article talks about prisons scanning mail. The OP then says that prisons are corrupt, then throws in that by the way, police departments are too. OP's opinion about police department corruption has nothing…

In the US a large number of incarceration facilities are ran by the county police (otherwise known as the Sheriff's department).

Re: NYC jails want to ban physical mail, then privatize scanning of digital versions

#149

Post by ilickpoolalgae »

sokoloff wrote: post #33
flerchin wrote: post #23

I cannot imagine being a software dev for these projects. I'd rather work on a porn-site.

What’s wrong with working on a porn site? I’d feel better about working on a porn site than at least one of FAANGs.

A sense of a large portion of the porn industry, whether domestic or international, is developed through coercion, abuse, and sometimes straight up sex trafficking of vulnerable people? For every legitimate actress/actor who is involved in the industry in a safe manner, there are several who were tricked into a production. I think as a society we've generally moving to accepting the sex industry as a necessary vice, but there's a lot of seedy stuff happening behind the scenes.

Won't try to get into an argument about what is more negatively impacting society (FAANG or sex industry) but I think it's easier to empathize with the fact that that's someone's child on screen that more likely than not, had no idea what they were getting into.

Re: NYC jails want to ban physical mail, then privatize scanning of digital versions

#150

Post by CerieXerox »

burkaman wrote: post #87
CerieXerox wrote: post #34

Picking Rikers as an example is low-hanging fruit. Even by the (very-low) American jail standards it's one of the worst. > Violence and drug use among the inmate population has been a problem at Rikers for decades https://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/nyc-crime/ny-rikers-vio... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rikers_Island#Abuse_and_neglec...

It's also the largest or second largest jail in the country depending on how you count, and close to the largest in the world. It makes sense to go for the largest and lowest-hanging fruit if it somehow remains uneaten even after many decades of reporting and investigations.

Agreed! Just a reminder that NY Daily News is only slightly to the left of the Post so we can't discount the subtler message here -- "this data extrapolates to every jail in the US 1:1." (An oversimplification, the article also quotes someone saying this practice "seems cruel" for ex.)
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