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Plant-based meat is turning out to be a flop

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Re: Plant-based meat is turning out to be a flop

#781

Post by raspberry1337 »

the-smug-one wrote: post #213
raspberry1337 wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What looks reasonable to you might not look reasonable to someone else, like someone that strives to avoid seed oils and other industrial products and live above 90 years of age.

Haha, do you believe that olive oil isn't made on a large ("industrial") scale? Or lard, or tallow, for that matter. Man, this is just more FUD, scientists aren't arguing about this, shitty fitness influencers are. But hey, I do hope that you live to 90 or above, cool goal. I just hope you don't waste too much time listening to Joe Rogan. I'm not gonna waste more of my precious (and I guess to you very short) life on…

Anytime someone says "scientists arent arguing about popular topic x", a new Einstein gets aborted.

"Cooked vegetable oil worsened inflammation in the colon, enhanced tumor growth, promoted gut leakage, and caused harmful bacterial products to leak." https://www.foundmyfitness.com/news/s/dtqdmb

Re: Plant-based meat is turning out to be a flop

#782

Post by raspberry1337 »

tpush wrote: post #318
raspberry1337 wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What looks reasonable to you might not look reasonable to someone else, like someone that strives to avoid seed oils and other industrial products and live above 90 years of age.

Avoiding "seed oils" is a mania made up by internet grifters; if you cared about science you'd want to replace animal fats with (non-tropic) vegetable oils!

https://www.foundmyfitness.com/news/s/dtqdmb

"Cooked vegetable oil worsened inflammation in the colon, enhanced tumor growth, promoted gut leakage, and caused harmful bacterial products to leak into the bloodstream in mice.

This study used canola oil which is high in polyunsaturated fatty acids (PUFAs) as are other vegetable oils such as soy and corn. PUFAs are prone to oxidation which was shown to be the mechanism causing damage in this study.

Other cooking oils and fats that are not high in PUFAs such as avocado oil, olive oil, coconut oil, and butter are not likely to have the same effect. One thing to keep in mind is that olive oil has a low smoke point so when frying things at very high temperatures avocado oil may be a better option since it has a high smoke point."

Re: Plant-based meat is turning out to be a flop

#783

Post by j-pb »

belorn wrote: post #692
j-pb wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you care about environmentalism then you should resonate with the fact that 68% of the Amazon is Burnt for pastures for Cattle Farming. 28% is Burnt for Agriculture, of which 60% is for soybeans, of which 77% are shipped overseas for livestock feed. That means at least 80% is burned for livestock or livestock feed. Since part of the palm oil and other plant produced is also used for livestock feed that number prob…

If meat is causing people to burn down the amazon, then don't eat meat produced from the Amazon. There is a reason why for example here in Sweden the price of imported beef from Brazil tend to be about half the price of locally produced beef. Local producers has to follow regulations and laws that Brazil producers do not. I will generally advise that people avoid buying any products from countries who has a history o…

I think you missed the bit where 77% of farmland is used for feed export. Your beef might be produced locally, but the feed for that beef, was produced on deforrested land.

Re: Plant-based meat is turning out to be a flop

#785

Post by avhception »

MereInterest wrote: post #247
avhception wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It never occurred to me to mix real and fake meat. Now I'm curious. Maybe I'll have to try a 50/50 ground beef mix, just out of curiosity, haha. My comparison method so far was the Whopper.

I did get a rather funny look one time when I ordered an Impossible Burger, with bacon on top. I wanted to try it out, and to see whether it could replace some of my meat consumption. However, this didn’t fit into the usual categories of “vegetarian” or “non-vegetarian”.

Sounds like the same kind of look I get when I eat one of the aforementioned "classic" plant-based patties or other veggie-stuff around people who know I eat meat. Somehow they assume that only vegetarians would eat that.

Re: Plant-based meat is turning out to be a flop

#786

Post by marcus0x62 »

maury91 wrote: post #654
evanelias wrote: post #622

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In case you were responding specifically to GP's mention of "chicken fried steak": it's beef, not chicken. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicken_fried_steak

I translated "cotoletta" into "Schnitzel" to give an immediate idea of the dish to the reader ( because Schnitzel is more famous ), but in Italian cotoletta can be both with chicken or pork or beef, the recipe is the same with every meat ( beat the meat, bread it, shallow fry it )

The chicken-based analogue to chicken fried steak in Southern United States cuisine is chicken fried chicken. Chicken Fried Steak is steak that is breaded and fried like fried chicken and covered in white gravy. Chicken Fried Chicken is the same thing, but with a chicken cutlet instead of steak in the case of Chicken Fried Steak or a piece of bone-in chicken in the case of traditional fried chicken.

Re: Plant-based meat is turning out to be a flop

#787

Post by slothtrop »

DangitBobby wrote: post #756
slothtrop wrote: post #672

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's as meaningful as saying you can't gauge whether plants suffer or not - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wound_response_in_plants#MAMPs... I think we can get a pretty good ballpark estimate, by virtue that suffering categorically requires a certain level consciousness.

I've seen this "argument" offered up many times, but never see a satisfying conclusion. The goal is to minimize suffering. What could you possibly do with the information that plants feel pain? Your options are to: 1. Die 2. Decide there are no perfect options and give up on minimizing harm completely 3. Do your best to pick a diet and lifestyle which minimizes harm with actionable heuristics What exactly do you sugg…

> What could you possibly do with the information that plants feel pain?

Keep the goalpost planted at "suffering" which requires consciousness. So we're still at #3. The analogy of the plant is just to reflect that there's sloppy conjecture used to project the capacity for suffering onto certain animals that by all the counts should not (where suffering entails a conscious awareness of pain and despair).

Re: Plant-based meat is turning out to be a flop

#788

Post by slothtrop »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #773
slothtrop wrote: post #695

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> plats reacting and signalling is no different than a bacteria moving along a concentration gradient. No different than pain receptors, you mean. > Plants have no brains or analog at all No brain, yes. But what of "no analog" if the qualifier for suffering is deliberately clouded in ambiguity? The only reason the brain matters qua suffering is owing to the capacity for consciousness. Plants have no brain, well, sard…

> No different than pain receptors, you mean. Not the best argument. I don't really mind my pain receptors going off if the signal doesn't make it to my spine. Do you?

If the signal "doesn't make it", it's an ineffectual signal. Are you suggesting plants have ineffectual signals?

Re: Plant-based meat is turning out to be a flop

#789

Post by slothtrop »

comte7092 wrote: post #696
unity1001 wrote: post #682

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Citation needed, no where in your source Factory farming is the same everywhere. Here's another citation. https://www.aspca.org/protecting-farm-animals/problem-factor... . Another. https://thehumaneleague.org/article/what-is-factory-farming Another. https://sentientmedia.org/factory-farms/ Another extensive one with more references inside. https://animalequality.org/blog/2022/10/14/factory-farming-f... > Because th…

Not a single one do your sources refutes anything that I said. Or supports your claim that cows spend their whole lives on factory farms. All they say is that they exist and that most animals go through them. Newsflash! That’s what I have been saying all along. > Even if the cattle was 'first grass fed then shipped to factory farms to fatten' like you argue, the factory farming consuming ~70% of the grain in the US a…

I'm willing to believe that cows spend most of their lives consuming grass (I started this comment chain) but would also like to see a more compelling source than your anecdotes.

If they do spend most of their time consuming grass, I wonder if they are carbon-neutral for that period, or if that requires constant migration to fertilize new lands which might not occur.

The big development in this sector is the new seaweed supplements / additives, which should reduce methane emissions by a staggering amount. Some places are beginning to adopt it, not sure about the US. Naturally the green sphere is not thrilled, because there's so much overlap with the vegans.

Re: Plant-based meat is turning out to be a flop

#790

Post by comte7092 »

slothtrop wrote: post #789
comte7092 wrote: post #696

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not a single one do your sources refutes anything that I said. Or supports your claim that cows spend their whole lives on factory farms. All they say is that they exist and that most animals go through them. Newsflash! That’s what I have been saying all along. > Even if the cattle was 'first grass fed then shipped to factory farms to fatten' like you argue, the factory farming consuming ~70% of the grain in the US a…

I'm willing to believe that cows spend most of their lives consuming grass (I started this comment chain) but would also like to see a more compelling source than your anecdotes. If they do spend most of their time consuming grass, I wonder if they are carbon-neutral for that period, or if that requires constant migration to fertilize new lands which might not occur. The big development in this sector is the new seaw…

>I'm willing to believe that cows spend most of their lives consuming grass (I started this comment chain) but would also like to see a more compelling source than your anecdotes.

Pretty much any industry site will openly provide an overview of the process:

https://www.pabeef.org/raising-beef/beef-lifecycle

“Calves are weaned from their mother’s milk at about 6 to 10 months of age when they weigh between 450 and 700 pounds. These calves continue to graze on grass pastures. About 1/3 of the female calves will stay on the farm to continue to grow and to become new mother cows the following year… After weaning and/or during the stocker and backgrounder phase, cattle may be sold at livestock auction market… Mature cattle are often moved to feedyards (also called feedlots). Here cattle typically spend four to six months [editorial comment, these are “factory farms”] … Once cattle reach market weight (typically 1,200 to 1,400 pounds at 18 to 22 months of age), they are sent to a packing plant“

>If they do spend most of their time consuming grass, I wonder if they are carbon-neutral for that period, or if that requires constant migration to fertilize new lands which might not occur.

As far as this goes, I personally have no idea. I think it’s a bit of a moot point, however, because the feedlots are an integral part of the process at this point and that’s where a ton of emissions happen (not to mention bio waste aka manure/runoff). Additionally the amount of rangeland cows take up is absolutely massive. Other commenters will say that there’s “no other use” for that land, as if every inch of land needs to be used for farming purposes. We need wild areas too.

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