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Plant-based meat is turning out to be a flop

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Re: Plant-based meat is turning out to be a flop

#671

Post by lukeschlather »

stcroixx wrote: post #617
lukeschlather wrote: post #520

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Vegetarian/veganism is not a fashion choice, it's a moral one. It's like asking why a Muslim prepares a dish that's traditionally prepared with pork but instead substitutes lamb. I'm not sure what more explanation you require.

It was very trendy in certain circles when I was in college to be vegetarian/vegan and I think it was mostly a fashion choice. If it had been about morals, there would have been other lifestyle changes.

People also adopt religions to be fashionable, and they don't follow all the tenets of that religion. Seems bad-faith to ask someone who professes a moral stance why they don't behave more like someone who is just professing that moral stance to be fashionable.

Re: Plant-based meat is turning out to be a flop

#672

Post by slothtrop »

someNameIG wrote: post #670
slothtrop wrote: post #579

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Animals are mostly sentient. The degree of "consciousness" is debated. Sardines don't even have a cerebral cortex, which to me puts them on the level of insects - vegans might object, but they won't object to squashing flies and using insecticides. As for the environment, depends on the animal - this is usually about methane (from cows) and land encroachment (also, because of soybean crops or whatever).

As a vegan with things like sardines and insects is that, at least currently, we can't gauge if they can suffer or not, so err on the side of caution and don't eat them.

That's as meaningful as saying you can't gauge whether plants suffer or not - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wound_response_in_plants#MAMPs...

I think we can get a pretty good ballpark estimate, by virtue that suffering categorically requires a certain level consciousness.

Re: Plant-based meat is turning out to be a flop

#673

Post by lxi92 »

If you look at the other articles published by the author, Deena Shanker, they are pretty much all doom-and-gloom headlines related to plant-based companies:

https://www.bloomberg.com/authors/ASznQGEjaUE/deena-shanker

This does not look like someone objectively trying to sort through the facts and present a representative picture of the state of things.

Just something to consider.

Re: Plant-based meat is turning out to be a flop

#674

Post by noodlesUK »

idiotsecant wrote: post #621
User23 wrote: post #533

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can trim, slice, and hammer pork tenderloin as another way to get a fairly low fat schnitzel. Regarding cholesterol, the link between dietary cholesterol and blood cholesterol isn’t very strong. As far as I know unless someone is following specific medical advice from their own provider eggs do not need to be restricted.

I think it's pretty well established that the dietary cholesterol to blood cholesterol link is very strong in some people, very weak in some people, and somewhere in the middle for most people. There are definitely 'hyper-responders' for whom dietary cholesterol is very, very bad. There are also people that can eat dozens of eggs a day and have perfectly normal blood cholesterol. The only way to know how those geneti…

I’m just curious why you would eat 8-10 eggs daily? That seems like a very large number.

Re: Plant-based meat is turning out to be a flop

#675

Post by someNameIG »

bastardoperator wrote: post #640
dayvid wrote: post #618

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a good option for eating out as a vegetarian/vegan. At least in the US, most vegetarian/vegan restaurant dishes are an afterthought or non-existent unless it's a vegan restaurant. I don't complain about it, but I've come to not enjoy going to restaurants as a result of this. It's also not bad for people who want to transition from eating meat to being more plant-based and it's another option in general.

I'd argue most of the vegetarian/vegan food is going to be cooked alongside meat, especially burgers. You're not getting a special griddle when it comes to prep. The closest I've seen is cooking the vegetarian food earlier and putting it in a steamer, but who wants anything that was prepared 6 hours ago let alone steamed?. I guess I just don't understand the whole concept. I went to vegan expo thing way back in the d…

Veganism is an ethical position, not a diet. It to reduce the harm to animals we cause as much as feasible and possible. A veggie burger cooked need to a beef one doesn't harm any animal nor does it add demand for animal products. Ethically there's nothing really wrong with it.

Same with the last, I'm vegan because I can live fine while lowering the harm I do to animals, but meat and dairy products do taste good.

Re: Plant-based meat is turning out to be a flop

#676

Post by somehnguy »

JimBlackwood wrote: post #664
georgyo wrote: post #437

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Meat tastes really good. I think there are many people who want to eat less meat but really enjoy meat. I am one of those people.

But then in your effort to eat less meat, would you replace it with plant-based alternatives? Personally, I cook without any alternatives and just make proper dishes with no meat. Then, once in a while, I’ll get some better locally sourced meat and make a great meat based dish.

> But then in your effort to eat less meat, would you replace it with plant-based alternatives?

Yes, 100%. I like meat, and meat based dishes. I’ve never had a vegetable based dish that compares to even something similar but containing meat.

I feel like when meat alternatives are discussed this option of just making vegetable based dishes always comes up. And I think most people agree with me here - meat makes them better across the board. If it didn’t this market wouldn’t exist and people buy much less meat.

As I’m unwilling to switch completely to vegetable based dishes, meat alternatives are the next best option.

Re: Plant-based meat is turning out to be a flop

#677

Post by astura »

takoid wrote: post #564
dboreham wrote: post #561

A product that is everywhere, on the menu in seemingly every restaurant, is a flop?? Article paid for by the meat industry perhaps?

Where do you live? In the United States, I have yet to see plant-based meat on a menu.

You don't live near a Burger King, Starbucks, Carl's Jr, or White Castle?

Re: Plant-based meat is turning out to be a flop

#678

Post by someNameIG »

slothtrop wrote: post #672
someNameIG wrote: post #670

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a vegan with things like sardines and insects is that, at least currently, we can't gauge if they can suffer or not, so err on the side of caution and don't eat them.

That's as meaningful as saying you can't gauge whether plants suffer or not - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wound_response_in_plants#MAMPs... I think we can get a pretty good ballpark estimate, by virtue that suffering categorically requires a certain level consciousness.

Plants have no brains or analog at all, plats reacting and signalling is no different than a bacteria moving along a concentration gradient.

The animals I mentioned do, even if very simple ones. If you really want to question this bivalves are a better example, as I've seen many debates in vegan circles about them.

Re: Plant-based meat is turning out to be a flop

#679

Post by spicymaki »

jononomo wrote: post #470
spicymaki wrote: post #454

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> natural food we've been eating since the dawn of time. I don't know if you seen the factory farms that produce chicken and beef? There is nothing natural from the dawn of time from that. They are loaded with antibiotics, and they are naturally selected for maximum meat production. Deli meats and hotdogs sure are natural products made of some amalgamation of random animal parts. Some people speak as if everyone proc…

Beef is not factory-farmed. All cows are raised grazing on grass and are taken to feedlots for fattening only just prior to slaughter. Cows don't go through the torture that chickens and pigs go through.

> Beef is not factory-farmed.

That seems to go against common knowledge.

Cows spend about a few months to a year on a feed lot which is most likely a concentrated feed lot (CAFO is a factory farm). Veal seems to be especially cruel. Dairy cows seem to have it pretty bad for around five years from start to finish.

Re: Plant-based meat is turning out to be a flop

#680

Post by poulpy123 »

Sohcahtoa82 wrote: post #669
joshvm wrote: post #607

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A friend and I did a (literal) blind taste test with impossible/USDA organic beef/beyond. I was excited to do this as we don't get Impossible in Europe. We baked our own buns etc, cooked to temp with a probe, got some nice cheese on top good stuff. We also did a blind tests of the proteins on their own, and in a plain burger. Neither of us had any trouble picking out which product was which, but it was really interes…

> In Switzerland meat is expensive. Organic ground/minced beef from Farmy is something like $15-20/lb. Organic chicken breast is $50/lb (around $15/breast). That's insane. I'm in the USA and I can get organic ground beef for under $7/lb. Organic chicken breast for $8/lb. Both can be even lower if I buy in bulk. If you don't care about it being organic, then both of them get to $3/lb.

Don't forget that salaries in Switzerland are very high. In Geneva, the minimum legal salary before taxes is at 26$/h
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