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Plant-based meat is turning out to be a flop

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Re: Plant-based meat is turning out to be a flop

#571

Post by purephase »

uhtred wrote: post #496
maury91 wrote: post #429

I'm not a fan of plant-based meat, this is most likely because of my culture ( I'm Sardinian ), we do have many meat based dishes and many plant based dishes, and honestly I don't see the need to cook the meat based ones with processed food that tries to replicate the taste and consistency of meat. I believe that if you don't want to eat meat there's a world of recipes that do not involve meat and are made to elevate…

Do we have to keep having this conversation? Lots of people, like myself, choose to not eat meat because we care about animal welfare. It's not because we don't like eating meat. Therefore food that tastes and feels like meat but didn't require killing an animal makes sense.

Yeah, this is the issue that most people seem to miss. It's not the flavour that is the issue, which is why products that attempt to replicate it are successful with vegans/vegetarians.

What we find abhorrent is that a living, sentient being had to be raised and slaughtered in mostly inhumane conditions, in a supply chain that is evil to humans and animals alike.

Removing that element from my diet is the goal, not the flavour. I don't understand why this is so hard for some people to understand.

Re: Plant-based meat is turning out to be a flop

#572

Post by mindcandy »

jononomo wrote: post #463
hannob wrote: post #146

How strange, we massively subsidize meat production, we don't even consider letting meat producers pay for the externalities they cause, and then plant-based alternatives have a hard time competing. It's a real mystery.

The externalities of a plant-based diet are enormous, from the use of pesticides which then leads to the decimation of the bird population to the massive amount of fossil-fuel-based fertilizer, to the explosion in the rate of obesity and diabetes -- at least grazing cattle is good for the land and leads to carbon sequestration.

You have this backwards to the point I thought you were being sarcastic. Cows and pigs require a huge multiplier of agriculture (and water) to feed them in order to produce an equivalent amount of food for humans.

Thanks to subsidies targeting livestock feed, it is cheaper to buy feed shipped from the next state over than it is to grow it yourself. Thus, petroleum based fertilizer, transportation fuel, and dung reservoirs.

Then there’s the whole issue of methane from cow farts being a serious source of greenhouse effects. It would be funny if only it wasn’t.

And, the obesity/diabetes link is also tied to farm subsidies making starchy corn and wheat practically free while leaving actually healthy vegetables to compete against practically free.

The only way out is to ramp farm subsidies down to zero. That would be political suicide because it will increase the price of food. Especially meat. But, the alternative is to continue to slowly eat our way into diabetes and global warming.

Re: Plant-based meat is turning out to be a flop

#573

Post by slothtrop »

georgyo wrote: post #437
maury91 wrote: post #429

I'm not a fan of plant-based meat, this is most likely because of my culture ( I'm Sardinian ), we do have many meat based dishes and many plant based dishes, and honestly I don't see the need to cook the meat based ones with processed food that tries to replicate the taste and consistency of meat. I believe that if you don't want to eat meat there's a world of recipes that do not involve meat and are made to elevate…

Meat tastes really good. I think there are many people who want to eat less meat but really enjoy meat. I am one of those people.

I eat less (almost no red meat), but that is as far as I'll go. Taste is one thing, but also the high quality proteins and nutrition, plus I don't see the problem in killing animals in and of itself. I can't replicate this calorie-per-calorie strictly with veg without supplementation, nor do I feel as good. That approach doesn't seem "green" or financially viable for everyone, notwithstanding that some people do better on vegan diets than others. As far as I can tell, modest consumption is best for optimal health, by virtue that replacing them with.

Re: Plant-based meat is turning out to be a flop

#574

Post by Poppys »

I think it was on the Off Menu podcast that the hosts summed it up perfectly, that plant-based meat is a great substitute for the dodgy low quality meat you would get at a kebab shop at 1am, but you aren't going to get a the quality of a nice steak.

None of the plant based meat I have tasted has been great, but I'd scoff it down for a quick post pub snack.

Re: Plant-based meat is turning out to be a flop

#575

Post by purephase »

kup0 wrote: post #481

This editorialized link title and the article's headline itself doesn't really match the article's content (as is increasingly common it seems). Sure, Beyond Meat has had lower sales- but soon after they mention that retail sales of Impossible meat products increased 50% in 2022- with an odd "but the CEO left so they're in trouble" assessment which seems a bit bonkers. Then the author seems to say that because fake m…

The article is pushing a narrative. Every once and awhile these flair up, since there's a lot of scared people in the traditional meat/dairy industries right now, since they're losing counter/shelf space in supermarkets and menu options in restaurants all over the world.

I'm not sure if the author has stepped into a grocery store recently, but they're entire aisles/half-aisles dedicated to just plant-based options now, which was unheard of 25 years ago when I originally went vegan.

Hanging the success of an entire movement and industry on two of the most recent entrants to the market seems like a very skewed metric to base your opinion on when the evidence to the contract is absolutely everywhere if you want to look for it or notice it.

The fact that they're not is telling.

Re: Plant-based meat is turning out to be a flop

#576

Post by alexgrover »

takoid wrote: post #564
dboreham wrote: post #561

A product that is everywhere, on the menu in seemingly every restaurant, is a flop?? Article paid for by the meat industry perhaps?

Where do you live? In the United States, I have yet to see plant-based meat on a menu.

Where in the United States? It’s very easy to find restaurants serving Beyond/Impossible in most major cities in the US.

Re: Plant-based meat is turning out to be a flop

#577

Post by slothtrop »

nightski wrote: post #568
unity1001 wrote: post #490

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it is the most environmentally friendly option Its not. You need 30 kg of grain or other edible product to make just 1 kg of meat. We are literally turning more food to less food. An unrelated statistic showed that if the world has increased its meat consumption just a little bit more, we would run out of food. The conversion rate is that bad. ... Context: https://www.worldanimalprotection.us/blogs/hidden-driver-fa…

Well that's not true. Most cattle is grass fed for the majority of it's life at which point they will have them eat at feed lots to fatten up. Second, feed lots can use things like by-products of sugar production (molasses, beet pulp pellets, etc...) for feed. These are not human consumable and require no extra food to be grown. I've worked with a company that does over half a billion in revenue on this alone. There…

> Well that's not true. Most cattle is grass fed for the majority of it's life at which point they will have them eat at feed lots to fatten up.

In the West, or globally? Because commercial agriculture here relies on corn/grain feed most of their life.

Re: Plant-based meat is turning out to be a flop

#578

Post by guestbest »

kup0 wrote: post #481

This editorialized link title and the article's headline itself doesn't really match the article's content (as is increasingly common it seems). Sure, Beyond Meat has had lower sales- but soon after they mention that retail sales of Impossible meat products increased 50% in 2022- with an odd "but the CEO left so they're in trouble" assessment which seems a bit bonkers. Then the author seems to say that because fake m…

Shelf space isn’t determined by the grocer so much as it is determined by the supplier. It’s called a slotting fee

Re: Plant-based meat is turning out to be a flop

#579

Post by slothtrop »

navierstokess wrote: post #469
jononomo wrote: post #455

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Some vegans believe that it is unethical to kill animals, and that they should have the same rights as us. Of course, they're wrong because animals aren't able to think. Others believe that meat is bad for the environment, however I don't know if that is correct as I haven't done any research on the topic.

Animals are mostly sentient. The degree of "consciousness" is debated. Sardines don't even have a cerebral cortex, which to me puts them on the level of insects - vegans might object, but they won't object to squashing flies and using insecticides.

As for the environment, depends on the animal - this is usually about methane (from cows) and land encroachment (also, because of soybean crops or whatever).

Re: Plant-based meat is turning out to be a flop

#580

Post by browningstreet »

kup0 wrote: post #481

This editorialized link title and the article's headline itself doesn't really match the article's content (as is increasingly common it seems). Sure, Beyond Meat has had lower sales- but soon after they mention that retail sales of Impossible meat products increased 50% in 2022- with an odd "but the CEO left so they're in trouble" assessment which seems a bit bonkers. Then the author seems to say that because fake m…

In every taste test I've watched, Beyond never scores as high as Impossible. Impossible just seems to be doing better because it tastes better.
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