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Plant-based meat is turning out to be a flop

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Re: Plant-based meat is turning out to be a flop

#751

Post by spoils19 »

peterbraden wrote: post #688
joshvm wrote: post #607

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A friend and I did a (literal) blind taste test with impossible/USDA organic beef/beyond. I was excited to do this as we don't get Impossible in Europe. We baked our own buns etc, cooked to temp with a probe, got some nice cheese on top good stuff. We also did a blind tests of the proteins on their own, and in a plain burger. Neither of us had any trouble picking out which product was which, but it was really interes…

Where are you shopping? It’s not even close to that at migros.

Speak for yourself. Meat has been absurdly expensive for me here, to the point where I've had to cook vegetarian meals on and off.

Re: Plant-based meat is turning out to be a flop

#752

Post by DangitBobby »

COGlory wrote: post #529
nicoburns wrote: post #522

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does any of that really matter if people are buying it anyway?

Not sure. But I think it does help explain articles like this one.

Not really, since the article doesn't support the title.

Re: Plant-based meat is turning out to be a flop

#753

Post by DangitBobby »

japaneseminisub wrote: post #709
HWR_14 wrote: post #637

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Meat tastes really good. That does not imply that plant-based pseudo-meat tastes better than plant-based recipes designed to use, not hide, the plant flavors.

It's so strange isn't it, there are so many vegetarian dishes that are delicious. I've never understood the need to use a replacement that's worse across the board. I wonder if it's a cultural thing, like "I want a steak"

If you become a vegetarian in the US, you will come to appreciate that almost no mains offered in any "American" restaurant are without meat. If you go to a popular American restaurant that your friends picked, you are lucky to have 1 non-salad non-side option.

For whatever reason, our culture has decided that if it doesn't have meat, it barely qualifies as a meal. As a result, high quality vegetarian food must be aquired by seeking out ethnic food, seeking out veg friendly places, or learning to cook.

Re: Plant-based meat is turning out to be a flop

#754

Post by DangitBobby »

nightski wrote: post #697
jknoepfler wrote: post #608

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now account for the energy, land, labor, materials, and environmental externalities required to bring a cow from birth to the table at industrial scale (all the way from birth, through the animal's ~1.5 years of life (?), through slaughter, butchering, packing, distribution to the consumer, etc.), and compare that to a proportionate amount of beans and rice.

1. Energy - The renewable folks would have us believe this is incredibly cheap 2. Land - Most of this land is not usable for other purposes. At least in the U.S. I am not speaking about globally because the problems there are largely political 3. Labor - Creating jobs and opportunities is not a bad thing 4. Environmental - With the wars going on I think we have a lot more to worry about than the 3% of emissions comin…

Your 1. here is a bit of a copout.

Re: Plant-based meat is turning out to be a flop

#755

Post by yunwal »

telotortium wrote: post #703
andersco wrote: post #438

One very local anecdote that seems to contradict this: my local Trader Joe’s is nearly always out of Impossible burgers. On many occasions, I have stood in line at the shelf where they are kept, waiting for the person who is unboxing them and supposed to be stocking shelves but basically just handing directly to customers. Maybe not representative of the larger marketplace but at least in that store they are the prov…

I think that Beyond is feeling the pinch more, because it just tastes terrible. Impossible isn't as good as a real burger, but it's significantly better than Beyond, and Impossible is fine (discounting the cost) for filling out a spaghetti sauce or something where you can't taste the meat that well. So I think it's consumer preferences at work here

Impossible, to me, tastes better than most grocery store burgers. Certainly better than the cook-from-frozen ones that it’s closest to in texture, plus they crisp up better on the grill.

If it were as cheap I don’t think I’d ever have another beef burger unless it was from a butcher/steakhouse.

Re: Plant-based meat is turning out to be a flop

#756

Post by DangitBobby »

slothtrop wrote: post #672
someNameIG wrote: post #670

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a vegan with things like sardines and insects is that, at least currently, we can't gauge if they can suffer or not, so err on the side of caution and don't eat them.

That's as meaningful as saying you can't gauge whether plants suffer or not - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wound_response_in_plants#MAMPs... I think we can get a pretty good ballpark estimate, by virtue that suffering categorically requires a certain level consciousness.

I've seen this "argument" offered up many times, but never see a satisfying conclusion.

The goal is to minimize suffering. What could you possibly do with the information that plants feel pain? Your options are to:

1. Die

2. Decide there are no perfect options and give up on minimizing harm completely

3. Do your best to pick a diet and lifestyle which minimizes harm with actionable heuristics

What exactly do you suggest?

Re: Plant-based meat is turning out to be a flop

#757

Post by DangitBobby »

issa wrote: post #711
slothtrop wrote: post #668

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they really did, you'd expect to see calls to mitigate insect deaths as part of their usual dialog. They're apathetic. If you ask them, ostensibly they might object to killing insects to stay consistent, but they won't bring it up. THat's pretty much in line with naturally expected behavior, because intuitively we don't expect much from insects.

I don't feel comfortable speaking for ALL vegans, but in my house, we gently move spiders outside. We would also be totally fine with killing a mosquito. My general theory is that it is fine to hurt an animal if it attacks you first, but it's cruel to do it whenever it can be avoided. Just like all other forms of violence.

I also avoid killing insects and spiders, especially if they aren't dangerous and aren't bothering anyone. We don't use pest control to "keep bugs away" either.

Re: Plant-based meat is turning out to be a flop

#758

Post by yunwal »

xtracto wrote: post #208
michaelteter wrote: post #149

And we don't need fake meat. It's just something that the food industry can make and sell to us instead of us just eating stuff that grows in the earth. If you want something with a texture similar to meat, many mushrooms will do the job. If you want something reminiscent of ground beef, quinoa with seasoning will suffice. However, limiting yourself to vegetarian approaches of recreating meat dishes, then you are mis…

> However, limiting yourself to vegetarian approaches of recreating meat dishes, then you are missing out on what good vegetarian food can be. This is the key to becoming a vegetarian/plant-based food eater. I cook an amazing lasagna-like (sandwich-cake like) vegan meal with Plantain slices as the sheets and a yummy inside with soy, bell pepper and herbs. It's delicious. But people keep wanting to mimic the same meat…

> I cook an amazing lasagna-like…

> people keep wanting to mimic the same meat-based recipes with vegetables...

Do you see what you’ve just done here?

Re: Plant-based meat is turning out to be a flop

#759

Post by DangitBobby »

AussieWog93 wrote: post #723
maury91 wrote: post #429

I'm not a fan of plant-based meat, this is most likely because of my culture ( I'm Sardinian ), we do have many meat based dishes and many plant based dishes, and honestly I don't see the need to cook the meat based ones with processed food that tries to replicate the taste and consistency of meat. I believe that if you don't want to eat meat there's a world of recipes that do not involve meat and are made to elevate…

100% agreed. Never understood why vegan evangelists would try to convert me with some God awful meat-free sausage rather than a fresh falafel with tahini.

I think a lot of people either eat out or buy and heat up frozen ready-to-eat meals or meal parts (chicken tenders, fries, bag of vegetables, bag of stir fry mix) because they lack either the time or inclination to prep foods themselves. These are the maybe-could-be vegetarians that meat alternatives really appeal to.

Re: Plant-based meat is turning out to be a flop

#760

Post by DangitBobby »

rustyboy wrote: post #591
Swizec wrote: post #479

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fake meat feels similar to my Slovenian eyes. There's a whole world of recipes that just don't include meat and are delicious. It wasn't until I moved to the USA that I even realized those are "vegetarian" ... to me they're just regular foods and recipes. Lots of cottage cheese hearty meals with high protein content. It helps that traditional (100+ years ago) Slovenian culture was that you rarely eat meat because mea…

Someone already pointed out the obvious, meat tastes good, but has some ethical baggage. Ala - fake meat. But I think as you're pointing out, people around the world have made amazing dishes for centuries that are completely vegetarian why not eat those instead? And why there's no satisfying answer is because - It's not an either or. Do both is a perfectly valid answer. I've been vegan for 13 years and my partner of…

Alternative meat products are really great for people who can't or don't cook. I can cook fine now, but I still get lots of alternative meat products when I don't want to make a meal. At this point I'd consider fake chicken nuggets to be a comfort food.
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