Plant-based meat is turning out to be a flop • Hacker News Board

Re: Plant-based meat is turning out to be a flop

#631

Post by HWR_14 » Thu, Jan 19, 2023, 4:43 PM UTC

MR4D wrote: post #602

kup0 wrote: post #481

This editorialized link title and the article's headline itself doesn't really match the article's content (as is increasingly common it seems). Sure, Beyond Meat has had lower sales- but soon after they mention that retail sales of Impossible meat products increased 50% in 2022- with an odd "but the CEO left so they're in trouble" assessment which seems a bit bonkers. Then the author seems to say that because fake m…

Did we read the same article? FTA: > Supermarket sales of refrigerated plant-based meat plummeted 14% by volume for the 52 weeks ended Dec. 4, according to retail data company IRI. Orders of plant-based burgers at restaurants and other food-service outlets for the 12 months ended in November were down 9% from three years earlier, according to market researcher NPD Group. > Beyond lost sales in almost every channel la…

Beyond losing sales and laying people off is compatible with a growth industry where numerous other entrants are starting to steal the customer base of the first mover by charging less or having better products.

Of course, that is counterbalanced by retail and restaurant trends.

Re: Plant-based meat is turning out to be a flop

#632

Post by comte7092 » Thu, Jan 19, 2023, 4:43 PM UTC

unity1001 wrote: post #619

comte7092 wrote: post #593

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You may want to check your sources, because that’s not how commercial at works in the west. Cattle are indeed raised on grass for the majority of their life , however they are fed grain to make weight for slaughter. In a sense, both positions are incorrect, because the image of cows grazing on grass most of their lives with little grain at the end is a very skewed picture (without grain the lifecycle would be substan…

> because that’s not how commercial at works in the west You dont seem to be aware of factory farming... https://www.worldanimalprotection.us/blogs/hidden-driver-fac... > It is estimated that livestock consume 70% of the grain grown in the US, and that half of the water consumed in the US is used to grow grain for cattle.

I am aware of factory farming.

As I explained in my statement, cows are finished at factory farms.

It’s very clear that you have a very surface level understanding of how the American cattle industry works. At no point did I claim anything about how cows don’t consume a massive amount of grain.

Unlike chickens and pigs, the American cattle industry is decentralized. Cows are raised on a series of different types of ranching operations, traded along the way, until they end up at a factory farm at the end where they rapidly gain weight due to grain feeding.

Re: Plant-based meat is turning out to be a flop

#633

Post by Matticus_Rex » Thu, Jan 19, 2023, 4:45 PM UTC

WrtCdEvrydy wrote: post #585

fineIllregister wrote: post #545

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're repeating the same all-or-nothing reasoning. For many people looking for a substitute, it is close enough. For many vegans, it is an option they like. It doesn't to be every single person eating it at every meal for it to be successful. Other vegetarian protein patty substitutes have done just fine for decades selling to customers who want it. Why does Impossible have to eliminate meat altogether in order to s…

Because profits must go up. Anything else is a failure.

This is a non-response. Profits go up when you give people things they want in a way that's sustainable and decently scalable. Plant-based meats have definitely not reached their peak of market penetration, and manufacturing costs are expected to continue declining.

If they continue to sell and continue to grow the customer base, profits will go up.

Re: Plant-based meat is turning out to be a flop

#634

Post by algoatecorn » Thu, Jan 19, 2023, 4:45 PM UTC

Here's the thing. You might see a lot of these plant-based meat options in grocery stores and think "it's certainly not a flop! look at the grocery store sales!"

But now take a look at the major industry players. JBS, Tyson, Danone, etc. The ones with more capital than you can imagine and every reason to consider plant-based product lines.

Track their PR timeline over the past 5 years and it's easy to see that they tried to push this stuff into the market and it was not accepted in a way that generated profits.

Yes, I know big-meat is subsidized and not pricing in externalities. But that is the world we live in. These are just honest observations of a bizarre market.

If you are passionate about sustainable food systems, it's important to take a hard look at the truths surrounding meat production. Sexy tech and moral high-grounds only get you so far.

Re: Plant-based meat is turning out to be a flop

#635

Post by snapcaster » Thu, Jan 19, 2023, 4:46 PM UTC

tannhaeuser wrote: post #163

californical wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m vegetarian (several years now) and I agree with you. Meat has its problems, but our bodies make very good use of it. Long list of chemicals with unproven value? We have a bad track record with trying to engineer our own ‘healthy’ food. See: margarine for example. Impossible/beyond is great as a vegetarian as a rare treat (different flavors than normal veggies, loaded with umami — I don’t love them or anything but…

> See: margarine for example What's wrong with it for reducing cholesterol intake? Butter has gotten very expensive, too.

it had tons of trans fat when it came out, also cholesterol intake isn't important. Dietary cholesterol == bad is just a myth

Re: Plant-based meat is turning out to be a flop

#636

Post by osrec » Thu, Jan 19, 2023, 4:46 PM UTC

I had a "long vegetal" burger in Spain from Burger King. Basically an imitation chicken burger. And it was awesome! And Spanish people were ordering it too.

In the UK, the meat free alternatives are pretty great too. Honestly, it feels like meat free stuff is turning out to be the opposite of a flop.

Re: Plant-based meat is turning out to be a flop

#637

Post by HWR_14 » Thu, Jan 19, 2023, 4:47 PM UTC

georgyo wrote: post #437

maury91 wrote: post #429

I'm not a fan of plant-based meat, this is most likely because of my culture ( I'm Sardinian ), we do have many meat based dishes and many plant based dishes, and honestly I don't see the need to cook the meat based ones with processed food that tries to replicate the taste and consistency of meat. I believe that if you don't want to eat meat there's a world of recipes that do not involve meat and are made to elevate…

Meat tastes really good. I think there are many people who want to eat less meat but really enjoy meat. I am one of those people.

Meat tastes really good.

That does not imply that plant-based pseudo-meat tastes better than plant-based recipes designed to use, not hide, the plant flavors.

Re: Plant-based meat is turning out to be a flop

#638

Post by bequanna » Thu, Jan 19, 2023, 4:51 PM UTC

unity1001 wrote: post #586

nightski wrote: post #568

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well that's not true. Most cattle is grass fed for the majority of it's life at which point they will have them eat at feed lots to fatten up. Second, feed lots can use things like by-products of sugar production (molasses, beet pulp pellets, etc...) for feed. These are not human consumable and require no extra food to be grown. I've worked with a company that does over half a billion in revenue on this alone. There…

> Most cattle is grass fed for the majority of it's life Nope. The majority of cattle industry has transitioned to factory farming and the cattle in factories are fed with edible produce. Not grass. The current meat demand is not something that mere grazing can support. Even if it was possible to do with mere grazing, that's still not an argument: Grazing is done on land that could be used for many other purposes ran…

> Grazing is done on land that could be used for many other purposes ranging from residential urbanization to vertical farming.

Huh? Most land used for grazing and hay production is rural, remote, not suitable for crop agriculture and has little other use.

Either we feed livestock with that grass or do nothing with it.

Re: Plant-based meat is turning out to be a flop

#639

Post by browningstreet » Thu, Jan 19, 2023, 4:51 PM UTC

asoneth wrote: post #609

browningstreet wrote: post #580

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In every taste test I've watched, Beyond never scores as high as Impossible. Impossible just seems to be doing better because it tastes better.

Odd. Personally there is something exceedingly off-putting in the aftertaste of Impossible and I occasionally get rancid smelling burps afterwards. Beyond is fine, but still not in my top 5 veggie burgers.

For me personally, Beyond has a weird taste upfront, and Impossible sometimes has the weird burp after. I don't always get it though, so I figure there's an element to who's preparing it.

Re: Plant-based meat is turning out to be a flop

#640

Post by bastardoperator » Thu, Jan 19, 2023, 4:54 PM UTC

dayvid wrote: post #618

maury91 wrote: post #429

I'm not a fan of plant-based meat, this is most likely because of my culture ( I'm Sardinian ), we do have many meat based dishes and many plant based dishes, and honestly I don't see the need to cook the meat based ones with processed food that tries to replicate the taste and consistency of meat. I believe that if you don't want to eat meat there's a world of recipes that do not involve meat and are made to elevate…

It's a good option for eating out as a vegetarian/vegan. At least in the US, most vegetarian/vegan restaurant dishes are an afterthought or non-existent unless it's a vegan restaurant. I don't complain about it, but I've come to not enjoy going to restaurants as a result of this. It's also not bad for people who want to transition from eating meat to being more plant-based and it's another option in general.

I'd argue most of the vegetarian/vegan food is going to be cooked alongside meat, especially burgers. You're not getting a special griddle when it comes to prep. The closest I've seen is cooking the vegetarian food earlier and putting it in a steamer, but who wants anything that was prepared 6 hours ago let alone steamed?.

I guess I just don't understand the whole concept. I went to vegan expo thing way back in the day at UCLA and nearly every vendor was pretty much "our fake meat" which was odd because I assumed they didn't like meat, yet clearly do. Very confusing.