The illegals drugs question never made sense to me. It’s asking you to admit to something that won’t necessarily show up on a criminal background check if you haven’t ever been caught. Assuming you have been caught or are still using, other preemployment screens will catch that. So why not ask other questions like: “Have you ever murdered someone?” “Have you ever stolen?”
What not to write on your security clearance form (1988)
131–140 of 568 posts
Re: What not to write on your security clearance form (1988)
#132Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Not that different today, includes are you a war criminal or wanted by Nuremberg and are you a islamic terrorist no? Similarly there's still increased rules if you have been to particular places Those are widely different questions. These people were affirmatively not war criminals nor wanted by Nuremberg. And they were not equivalent of islamic terrorists either - the equivalent of that would be membership in stas…
Seems similar to me, people perceive questions differently I guess
This is not about subjective perception. This is literally about what words mean. You being performatively against communist party does not make "member of a communist party in eastern block" the same situation as "islamic terrorist".
And it does not make them war criminals either, you need to engage in war for that in the first place. It does not make them wanted by Nuremberg either, because Nuremberg never asked for them.
Re: What not to write on your security clearance form (1988)
#133I often answer the doctor office intake questionnaires with a glaring mistake just to see if anyone checks. Where it says “have you ever been pregnant?” I answer yes. I also mark that I am a male. No doctor’s office has ever mentioned this to me after I turn in the forms.
The pregnancy is usually the one thing that is promptly checked when a young man fills a form as a blood donor where I live. The form is a table, most questions are yes/no with a separate column you mark with X. The pregnancy row has a twist, it's "fill if you are a women" type.
Thankfully nurses know that well, check it instantly and ask to actually read the form. Blood donations are usually fun.
Re: What not to write on your security clearance form (1988)
#134Earlier quoted context omitted.
Ah, the "are you a terrorist" section of the U.S. visa application is hilarious. I was honestly laughing out loud at some of the questions, imagining a sincere terrorist having their plan foiled by their strict moral code which requires them to lay out in detail their plan to topple the government :)
I am reminded of the (probably apocryphal) story about a logician asking for a visa to enter the US for a conference. When he got to the question "Do you plan to overthrow the United States Government by force or violence?" he hesitated and then answered "violence".
There's a true story about Kurt Gödel's citizenship application:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6del%27s_Loophole#Backgr...
Re: What not to write on your security clearance form (1988)
#135"Here, fill it out again and don't mention that." I had the exact same experience when applying for a clearance while I was in college, for the "have you taken illegal drugs" question. When I honestly answered yes, the interviewer got fidgety and then asked, "well do you take them now?" no. "Do you know any drug users?" We're on a college campus, what would you like me to say? "Well, are you friends with any of them?…
My only experience with serious US government forms was applying for a tourist visa. This form also has some bonkers checkboxes like "do you plan to commit any crimes in the US". Also the entry form they give you on your flight deserves a mention. This one has "did you handle livestock in the last X months" repeated like 3 times in different phrasing. Not as stupid as the first one, but... why? Why is that question t…
In the 90s we had to fill out a form when dealing with Apple to certify that we didn't plan to build nuclear weapons.
Re: What not to write on your security clearance form (1988)
#136Earlier quoted context omitted.
My only experience with serious US government forms was applying for a tourist visa. This form also has some bonkers checkboxes like "do you plan to commit any crimes in the US". Also the entry form they give you on your flight deserves a mention. This one has "did you handle livestock in the last X months" repeated like 3 times in different phrasing. Not as stupid as the first one, but... why? Why is that question t…
Ah, the "are you a terrorist" section of the U.S. visa application is hilarious. I was honestly laughing out loud at some of the questions, imagining a sincere terrorist having their plan foiled by their strict moral code which requires them to lay out in detail their plan to topple the government :)
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Re: What not to write on your security clearance form (1988)
#137Earlier quoted context omitted.
Because you need proof, and proving that someone is a terrorist is a long expensive and not guarantied process, while the lying on a form thing is purposefully self evident.
But if you haven't proven they are a terrorist, how can you prove they are lying about being a terrorist? They might not be a terrorist, in which case they weren't lying.
Well the form doesn't literally ask, "are you a terrorist? ". It's just a bunch of terroristic and criminal activities. So if you said no to "do you plan to commit any crimes" and then you rob a store or God forbid actually commit terrorism, which is a crime, you've lied on the form and can be expelled quickly
Re: What not to write on your security clearance form (1988)
#138Earlier quoted context omitted.
What would the ramifications be if they ever found out you lied? It’s an innocent lie, but still, I can imagine that lying on these types of forms could turn out badly.
Didn't the previous Executive Administration have a few issues with their SF-86 forms? The fact that I remember the form number leads me to believe it must have been in the news a bit. I think they just had to fill out some amended forms or something like that - didn't seem like a big deal.
OPM had a security breach back in 2015 and the data on these forms was stolen. https://news.clearancejobs.com/2015/06/13/sf-86-stolen-opm-h...
Re: What not to write on your security clearance form (1988)
#139Earlier quoted context omitted.
Because you need proof, and proving that someone is a terrorist is a long expensive and not guarantied process, while the lying on a form thing is purposefully self evident.
But if you haven't proven they are a terrorist, how can you prove they are lying about being a terrorist? They might not be a terrorist, in which case they weren't lying.
Jaywalking is illegal. It doesn't have to be the same illegal thing they want you out for. They're just giving them more options.
Re: What not to write on your security clearance form (1988)
#140Earlier quoted context omitted.
Because you need proof, and proving that someone is a terrorist is a long expensive and not guarantied process, while the lying on a form thing is purposefully self evident.
But if you haven't proven they are a terrorist, how can you prove they are lying about being a terrorist? They might not be a terrorist, in which case they weren't lying.
It may be burden of proof. Where I live, criminal court is to be thought of as 99% proof of guilt, where as civil court, eg being sued, is more like 50.1%.
So maybe an expulsion tribunal is 50.1% too?