Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Boris Yeltsin's visit to a suburban Houston supermarket in 1989 (2016)

beelineblogger.blogspot.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

221–230 of 378 posts

Re: Boris Yeltsin's visit to a suburban Houston supermarket in 1989 (2016)

#221

Post by kergonath »

winrid wrote: post #219
pavlov wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now the challenge for us is that we’re still stuck thinking stores full of Chinese junk is the pinnacle of civilization and we’re unable to know any better despite accumulating evidence of planetary destruction.

Isn't it xenophobic to call it "Chinese junk"? The cheap junk is designed here in the US to be as cheap as possible and break as soon as possible. We did that. Not them. They're just building it.

It is also xenophobic to believe that Chinese are not able to design junk by themselves. They have a huge internal market and have a lot of reasons to do so. Also, a lot of the junk in question is white label, with pretty much no western engineer or designer involved even when it is sold in the US or Europe.

But the bottom line is, it is junk that comes from China, ergo Chinese junk.

Re: Boris Yeltsin's visit to a suburban Houston supermarket in 1989 (2016)

#222

Post by sudosysgen »

kragen wrote: post #194
sudosysgen wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This one in particular specifically required exploitation, though. It's an avered historical fact.

certainly in a marxist analysis wage-laboring banana pickers are being exploited because they're alienated from the fruits of their labor (which are in this case literal fruits) nevertheless, 01992 was a long time after democracy was restored in honduras in 01981 and the civil war began in guatemala in 01960, and bananas are still cheap today, including here in argentina, so evidently cheap bananas don't require the…

Banana republics are exploitative in literally every definition of exploitation, because there was literal military violence involved. And even nowadays, Marxist analysis is far from the only framework in which workers in the global south are exploited. In fact almost any theory of exploitation except for the most radical libertarian/neoliberal would see an element of exploitation.

It turns out that since 1980 there has been economic growth, making the production and shipping of various commodities more affordable.

If banana republics weren't necessary to keep bananas affordable and profitable they would never have existed in the first place.

Re: Boris Yeltsin's visit to a suburban Houston supermarket in 1989 (2016)

#223

Post by bendbro »

jhoechtl wrote: post #212
pavlov wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now the challenge for us is that we’re still stuck thinking stores full of Chinese junk is the pinnacle of civilization and we’re unable to know any better despite accumulating evidence of planetary destruction.

But where lies the middle ground? Soviets having one sort of butter vs. 20 sorts of butter (yoghurt, drills, ...) many of which were produced abroad? Maybe we can correct (economic) future by simply insourcing some goods and therefore work and forget about the knowledge society boloney?

You'll be called a fascist if you develop this view.

Re: Boris Yeltsin's visit to a suburban Houston supermarket in 1989 (2016)

#224

Post by winrid »

kergonath wrote: post #221
winrid wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't it xenophobic to call it "Chinese junk"? The cheap junk is designed here in the US to be as cheap as possible and break as soon as possible. We did that. Not them. They're just building it.

It is also xenophobic to believe that Chinese are not able to design junk by themselves. They have a huge internal market and have a lot of reasons to do so. Also, a lot of the junk in question is white label, with pretty much no western engineer or designer involved even when it is sold in the US or Europe. But the bottom line is, it is junk that comes from China, ergo Chinese junk.

I'm sure they do. But the junk comes from many places, and the responsibility is on the companies here. I just think calling it Chinese Junk is hiding the blame.

Look at my fridgidaire fridge and dishwasher - both recently broke at the same time after a few years. Both top of the line consumer models. They're still made in the US, but they're disposable junk sold at the homeless despot.

The fridge is $2k, but has the same cheap components from $400 fridges. Cost cutting is everywhere. Hold the right people accountable, IMO.

Re: Boris Yeltsin's visit to a suburban Houston supermarket in 1989 (2016)

#225

Post by cfn »

Back in 1989 I, by chance, took a Russian univeristy professor that was visiting Portugal to the largest supermarket in Lisbon. As far as I rememmber, we had to buy some food to take home and cook her a meal and the supermarket was in the way.

As we waited in line to pay she asked us if she could go for another walk by herself. She said that the supermarket was like a cathedral to her. That was when it dawned on me, having been in the USSR before, the shock she was going through.

Re: Boris Yeltsin's visit to a suburban Houston supermarket in 1989 (2016)

#226

Post by D_Alex »

refurb wrote: post #129
PheonixPharts wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m always a bit surprised that Soviet era Capitalist propaganda remains so effective to this day. Of course Capitalism looks fantastic from the exploiters’ perspective. Today more than ever it should be clear that the opulence of America in the 90s is completely unsustainable on a global scale. That way of live has always been reserved for a global minority, one many of us may find ourselves excluded from in our lif…

Capitalism has been responsible for lifting hundreds of millions out of poverty. Communism, or any other system, can’t make that same claim. Unless you have an alternative, your claims of exploration will fall on deaf ears.

>Communism, or any other system, can’t make that same claim.

I don't really think communism is a viable economic system, because of, you know, people. However, a couple of points should be made:

- Communism has always had to deal with enmity of world's richest and most influential nations (USA and UK in particular). Possibly because communism has had this inbuilt idea that it needs to spread to everywhere, whether they like it or not (kind of like some religions). Could this have been otherwise? I don't know.

- Between 1922 and 1962, USSR's economy grew at an average of about 9% real per annum, despite having to deal with the massive trauma of World War 2. Also, income inequality decreased. Population went from ~140 million in poverty to ~240 million living, um, not in poverty.

So... it is not quite as simple as you make it out to be.

Re: Boris Yeltsin's visit to a suburban Houston supermarket in 1989 (2016)

#227

Post by [deleted] »

valleyer wrote: post #220
winrid wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't it xenophobic to call it "Chinese junk"? The cheap junk is designed here in the US to be as cheap as possible and break as soon as possible. We did that. Not them. They're just building it.

I think it's a bit harsh to call them xenophobic, but I did have a similar thought recently. What's worse, manufacturing cheap junk for pay, or filling your home with cheap junk?

[deleted]

Re: Boris Yeltsin's visit to a suburban Houston supermarket in 1989 (2016)

#228

Post by thriftwy »

int_19h wrote: post #146
thriftwy wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well the UK belongs to a King to that day, how does it make it any less of a developed country? You seem to greatly downplay the historic Russia.

The historic pre-Bolshevik Russia was nothing to boast about, either. Just look at literacy rate or percentage of rural population.

Compared to whom? France or Germany? The whole British Empire?

Re: Boris Yeltsin's visit to a suburban Houston supermarket in 1989 (2016)

#229

Post by _5yv8 »

It isn’t really useful to compare the Soviet Union in it’s final 1-2 years of total crisis to the USA. You see videos of empty supermarkets, lines and many other problems. But this certainly is not an accurate depiction of normal life during most of the Soviet period. The 70s and early 80s did not have a lot of the problems that arose in 1989.

Re: Boris Yeltsin's visit to a suburban Houston supermarket in 1989 (2016)

#230

Post by winrid »

valleyer wrote: post #220
winrid wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't it xenophobic to call it "Chinese junk"? The cheap junk is designed here in the US to be as cheap as possible and break as soon as possible. We did that. Not them. They're just building it.

I think it's a bit harsh to call them xenophobic, but I did have a similar thought recently. What's worse, manufacturing cheap junk for pay, or filling your home with cheap junk?

Maybe it was harsh. However I think it makes the Chinese people look bad, where they aren't really to blame. The CCP keeps labor prices low, and we exploit it, and then we sit here and complain the stuff they make is junk.
Post reply on HN