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Boris Yeltsin's visit to a suburban Houston supermarket in 1989 (2016)

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Re: Boris Yeltsin's visit to a suburban Houston supermarket in 1989 (2016)

#211

Post by int_19h »

chupasaurus wrote: post #204
int_19h wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Today, sure. In USSR, no apartment was privately owned, though. You were assigned one "according to your needs" - e.g. when I was a kid, my extended family of 5 (me, my parents, and my mom's parents) had a two-bedroom apartment of 48.5 m^2 total, 27.2 m^2 of which was the two bedrooms. To give an idea of the size, here's the floor layout of that exact series of apartment buildings: https://i.imgur.com/ImxdsUG.jpeg (N…

There was a thing called building cooperatives which gave out the rights to gift or sell the apartment after the mortgage was paid. The private ownership on real estate was legalized in 1990 through that system.

Yes, although you still had to have a "need to improve living conditions", as measured in square meters currently allotted per family member, to get an apartment that way.

There was also the "build it to live in it" condominium programs that opened more opportunities specifically to those just starting their adult lives, who would otherwise qualify at most for a room in a communal apartment, and couldn't possibly afford a downpayment on that mortgage (15-20 monthly salaries). But those came late - many weren't even completed by 1991 - and they had considerable pushback from many local authorities, partly on the basis that such luxury was "undeserved" and unfair to older people who were in the line for regular apartments, and partly because some of their member-elected governance councils were starting to get political ambitions and push for more local self-administration in the 80s.

Re: Boris Yeltsin's visit to a suburban Houston supermarket in 1989 (2016)

#212

Post by jhoechtl »

pavlov wrote: post #207
danielodievich wrote: post #198

Few years into our emigration to USA, my family brought my grandfather over to USA. He was a blue collar worker, electrician at the cement factory, entering that profession right after the war, which he spent under the occupation and mostly I think as a shepherd for cows and pigs in what is now Belarus. He has built several houses in his life and was always incredibly handy with tools. We took him to Home Depot. He l…

Now the challenge for us is that we’re still stuck thinking stores full of Chinese junk is the pinnacle of civilization and we’re unable to know any better despite accumulating evidence of planetary destruction.

But where lies the middle ground? Soviets having one sort of butter vs. 20 sorts of butter (yoghurt, drills, ...) many of which were produced abroad?

Maybe we can correct (economic) future by simply insourcing some goods and therefore work and forget about the knowledge society boloney?

Re: Boris Yeltsin's visit to a suburban Houston supermarket in 1989 (2016)

#213

Post by midasuni »

chupasaurus wrote: post #196
ubermonkey wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks, man. The older I get the more astounded I am that our friendship with Andrei and Volodya happened at all, and the more regret I have that none of us retained any way to contact each other later. It was 1991. I was the only one of us to have an email address at the time.

Outside of academics [jk: and KGB] no one in USSR had an access to the Internet.

In the 1980s the internet was hardly in every home globally either.

Re: Boris Yeltsin's visit to a suburban Houston supermarket in 1989 (2016)

#214

Post by RomanPushkin »

paulpauper wrote: post #131

No fan of the USSR but that photo is not entirely arcuate here is what it looked like https://i.pinimg.com/originals/0c/56/2d/0c562d975c99e89786ec... not much different from food stores in the US during the 40s. Maybe blandness is a worthwhile trade off it is means less obesity and other ill of modern diets.

My dad had to drive 65 miles (by public transportation only with multiple stops) to get into one of these stores. You weren't allowed to buy over certain amount of groceries unless you have permission slip ("kartochka"). Permission slip specifies the number of children you have. And even with "kartochka" it wasn't that too much food you could buy anyway.

Also, as a child growing up mostly in outskirts of Moscow region (oblast), I don't remember even visiting one of these stores. I was about 20 y.o. (now 40) when I first saw a supermarket similar to this one in the town 65 miles from Moscow where I grew up.

Also, it doesn't mean everything was that bad, or we haven't had enough food on the table. Most of the food was unprocessed and simple, and the most was from farmers. For example, there was no to little cheese, but there was meat, and milk, and veggies. I have to admit that a large number of meat (especially chicken) was a humanitarian assistance (notorious "nozhki Busha" - Bush's chicken legs).

Re: Boris Yeltsin's visit to a suburban Houston supermarket in 1989 (2016)

#215

Post by mlindner »

PheonixPharts wrote: post #124
avgcorrection wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Then he saw the bananas. He really wanted bananas. He wouldn't ask for bananas. So I grabbed a bunch and put them in the basket. And then I told Andrei and Volodya about Banana Republics.

I’m always a bit surprised that Soviet era Capitalist propaganda remains so effective to this day. Of course Capitalism looks fantastic from the exploiters’ perspective. Today more than ever it should be clear that the opulence of America in the 90s is completely unsustainable on a global scale. That way of live has always been reserved for a global minority, one many of us may find ourselves excluded from in our lif…

> opulence of America in the 90s

I can only go "???" to this. America has only gotten more "opulent" since the 90s. The US has not seen any sort of decline since the 90s in fact we've seen the boom of one of the biggest industries in the world, that allows us to even discuss this on our computers.

Re: Boris Yeltsin's visit to a suburban Houston supermarket in 1989 (2016)

#216

Post by gnarbarian »

pavlov wrote: post #207
danielodievich wrote: post #198

Few years into our emigration to USA, my family brought my grandfather over to USA. He was a blue collar worker, electrician at the cement factory, entering that profession right after the war, which he spent under the occupation and mostly I think as a shepherd for cows and pigs in what is now Belarus. He has built several houses in his life and was always incredibly handy with tools. We took him to Home Depot. He l…

Now the challenge for us is that we’re still stuck thinking stores full of Chinese junk is the pinnacle of civilization and we’re unable to know any better despite accumulating evidence of planetary destruction.

we have a big cultural problem. our current economy is great at optimizing for low cost mass produced items that last 6 months and then get thrown in the dump.

a pair of shoes that lasts years isn't as profitable as a pair sold every 6 months. a coat or car that can be repaired is one less customer shopping for a new one. engineers design cars they don't have to work on or repair, and will never drive.

in a healthy economy new entrants who introduce more competitive products that push us towards some impossible limit for utility and value over the lifetime of the product would be more successful. but that's not happening.

maintainable products that last are out there (fewer every year) but people don't buy them.

I have a pair of 5 year old redwing boots that feel fantastic amd look great.

I have a 1986 Toyota pickup I can repair myself that runs like the devil was chasing it. (new Toyotas are a disgrace)

I don't know how to fix it beyond getting people to really value and embrace these concepts of simplicity, maintainability and longevity, over convenience, trendy, flashy, and novelty.

even weirder, if you ask people they will tell you they value maintainability and longevity. Something is perverting the market to drive people towards cheap bullshit. I believe this is concentration of power in cartels of companies that control the markets.

we have (accidentally?) erected a finely tuned machine that pushes markets towards cartels who sacrifice domestic craftsmanship and utility for mass produced crap while both creating and sponsoring the role models our culture idolizes. this is a feedback loop that will eventually become so inefficient that it will collapse.

thanks for coming to my TED talk please read shop class as soulcraft: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/6261332-shop-class-as-so...

Re: Boris Yeltsin's visit to a suburban Houston supermarket in 1989 (2016)

#217

Post by throwaway290 »

diimdeep wrote: post #197

The first part of the article I can relate to, but how it tied to the conclusion and this: “the average Russian spends about 50% of their income on food.” — is utter nonsense. Here is on the napkin calculation of grocery basket to salary from retail and service sources[0] for central region: 5600 ₽ * 100 / 62000 ₽ => 9,0323 % [0] MOEX:FIVE https://www.x5.ru/ru/PublishingImages/Pages/Media/News/Index... [1] MOEX:HHR h…

I am from somewhat medium class but not poor background and I know very few people who earn that much, is that advertised as average monthly salary? Maybe they need to check the median? (The first link wouldn't load for me.)

Edit: fwiw friend about to receive a degree in economy says 62000 is basically a bullshit number for a single person, and if they are talking families well 5600 is also (it may be enough for one person to survive without eating out but not a family). Does not compute.

Re: Boris Yeltsin's visit to a suburban Houston supermarket in 1989 (2016)

#218

Post by throwawayabcvd »

macintux wrote: post #38
throwawayabcvd wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

You're complaining that someone relaying personal anecdotes about comparative scarcity didn't turn it into a multi-page thesis on globalization?

I would've settled for a few words reflecting awareness.

Re: Boris Yeltsin's visit to a suburban Houston supermarket in 1989 (2016)

#219

Post by winrid »

pavlov wrote: post #207
danielodievich wrote: post #198

Few years into our emigration to USA, my family brought my grandfather over to USA. He was a blue collar worker, electrician at the cement factory, entering that profession right after the war, which he spent under the occupation and mostly I think as a shepherd for cows and pigs in what is now Belarus. He has built several houses in his life and was always incredibly handy with tools. We took him to Home Depot. He l…

Now the challenge for us is that we’re still stuck thinking stores full of Chinese junk is the pinnacle of civilization and we’re unable to know any better despite accumulating evidence of planetary destruction.

Isn't it xenophobic to call it "Chinese junk"?

The cheap junk is designed here in the US to be as cheap as possible and break as soon as possible. We did that. Not them.

They're just building it.

Re: Boris Yeltsin's visit to a suburban Houston supermarket in 1989 (2016)

#220

Post by valleyer »

winrid wrote: post #219
pavlov wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now the challenge for us is that we’re still stuck thinking stores full of Chinese junk is the pinnacle of civilization and we’re unable to know any better despite accumulating evidence of planetary destruction.

Isn't it xenophobic to call it "Chinese junk"? The cheap junk is designed here in the US to be as cheap as possible and break as soon as possible. We did that. Not them. They're just building it.

I think it's a bit harsh to call them xenophobic, but I did have a similar thought recently. What's worse, manufacturing cheap junk for pay, or filling your home with cheap junk?
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