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NTSB: Cloud shot up vertically in front of plane before turbulence

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Re: NTSB: Cloud shot up vertically in front of plane before turbulence

#21

Post by alamortsubite »

wildzzz wrote: post #18
alamortsubite wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think all airlines mention turbulence in the context of lap belts in their safety briefing. I know United does. Their passengers are no better behaved than what you've observed, though. Maybe there's a better way of getting the message across? Few people seem to pay any attention to the safety briefings, anyway. It's crazy.

Either you've never been on a plane before and are going to be nervous and likely listening to the safety briefing or you're an experienced flyer who's heard the speech many times and are going to do what you want. Air incidents are so rare that most people will never experience anything more than mild turbulence so they become complacent.

That's basically the problem. In the few incidents I've been in where the shit hit the fan, plenty of the grown adults around me screaming like children had to be in that group of "experienced" flyers, going by how many people I see totally oblivious during the briefings.

Re: NTSB: Cloud shot up vertically in front of plane before turbulence

#22

Post by no-s »

thrill wrote: post #5
kyleee wrote: post #3

Clouds form that quickly?

I've never seen one form out of clear air that quickly, as the pilot said local conditions were. I have flown a high performance jet alongside a rising cumulus and "raced" a column forming on the side that was rising quickly - it won, as in I ran out of climb capability before it did.

Whilst flying a sailplane I’ve seen a rotor cloud ( a kind turbulence associated with mountain wave soaring ) form in a fraction of a second. The first sign of it was a streak of cloud rising and curling over.

It was in front of me and I dived to get under it, passing through massive sink. Fortunately I found some ridge lift nearby and was able to make it back to safety.

Many years ago sailplane pilots flying in a contest near Marfa Texas were enjoying some strong updrafts in clear air and suddenly discovered they were in a coalescing strong tornado.

Re: NTSB: Cloud shot up vertically in front of plane before turbulence

#23

Post by kube-system »

ALittleLight wrote: post #16
alamortsubite wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think all airlines mention turbulence in the context of lap belts in their safety briefing. I know United does. Their passengers are no better behaved than what you've observed, though. Maybe there's a better way of getting the message across? Few people seem to pay any attention to the safety briefings, anyway. It's crazy.

Could just make an occupied seat's belt chime every n seconds it isn't buckled.

Most commercial flights have flight attendants that already verify passengers are belted for takeoff and landing, they could just remind people during the flight as well, although I bet many would not be receptive to it.

Re: NTSB: Cloud shot up vertically in front of plane before turbulence

#24

Post by kube-system »

alamortsubite wrote: post #12
kube-system wrote: post #10

Turbulence happens, and it’s often not possible to see it coming. Air is transparent after all. I’ve never been on a flight in the US where the preflight safety briefing didn’t say that seat belts should remain fastened when you’re in your seat. But I’ve also never been on one where i haven’t observed people being pretty damn casual about it when we’re at cruise. It is probably time to specifically add something abou…

I think all airlines mention turbulence in the context of lap belts in their safety briefing. I know United does. Their passengers are no better behaved than what you've observed, though. Maybe there's a better way of getting the message across? Few people seem to pay any attention to the safety briefings, anyway. It's crazy.

I don’t fly United much, but regardless, a mere mention of turbulence doesn’t really mean people understand what it means. Most people think “I almost spilled my drink” is severe turbulence.

What I more mean is that people should be made to understand that:

* severe turbulence can happen without warning during flight

* severe turbulence can launch you out of your seat if you aren’t strapped in

If you watch nearly any video of moderate to severe turbulence, people react like it’s a horror movie. People just don’t actually understand what turbulence can be.

Re: NTSB: Cloud shot up vertically in front of plane before turbulence

#25

Post by interestica »

alamortsubite wrote: post #12
kube-system wrote: post #10

Turbulence happens, and it’s often not possible to see it coming. Air is transparent after all. I’ve never been on a flight in the US where the preflight safety briefing didn’t say that seat belts should remain fastened when you’re in your seat. But I’ve also never been on one where i haven’t observed people being pretty damn casual about it when we’re at cruise. It is probably time to specifically add something abou…

I think all airlines mention turbulence in the context of lap belts in their safety briefing. I know United does. Their passengers are no better behaved than what you've observed, though. Maybe there's a better way of getting the message across? Few people seem to pay any attention to the safety briefings, anyway. It's crazy.

Maybe it's because it's presented as a binary. If users want to be comfortable, it tends to equal 'remove belt'. But if users could be instructed to "if you must, loosen the belt" they'd at least have people keeping them on? A loose belt won't protect in a major event, but it should at least keep you in the seat for an unexpected drop.

Re: NTSB: Cloud shot up vertically in front of plane before turbulence

#26

Post by kube-system »

wildzzz wrote: post #15
kjrose wrote: post #9

Having had a similar experience over the alps on air italia, this is why I never ever undo my belt unless I have to. The sign went on and 5 seconds later I felt myself physically leave the seat as we hit the worst turbulence I had ever felt. I rediscovered my appreciation for the rosary that day.

I'll sometimes keep my belt loose when the seatbelt sign is off for an extended period. I know I won't leave my seat in case of really bad turbulence but worst case I might rise up a few inches. Obviously if the plane broke apart, a seatbelt probably isn't going to save me but leaving it loose is a nice compromise between safety and comfort.

The plane isn’t going to break apart due to turbulence. Airliners are all designed to withstand 150% of the most severe turbulence.

Re: NTSB: Cloud shot up vertically in front of plane before turbulence

#27

Post by KMag »

kjrose wrote: post #9

Having had a similar experience over the alps on air italia, this is why I never ever undo my belt unless I have to. The sign went on and 5 seconds later I felt myself physically leave the seat as we hit the worst turbulence I had ever felt. I rediscovered my appreciation for the rosary that day.

At least in my experience, if I listen closely to the standard announcements, this is the explicit recommendation from the pilot/cabin crew as well.

Re: NTSB: Cloud shot up vertically in front of plane before turbulence

#28

Post by moistly »

hristov wrote: post #7

When they tell you to try to keep your seatbelts on at all times they are not kidding. I am sure some of the injuries were people like the quoted woman, people that had to take off their seatbelts to move around the cabin, but probably some of them were people that just unbuckled their seatbelts to feel more comfortable.

I have never understood the claim that seatbelts are uncomfortable. Are y’all cinching them down so hard it cuts off blood flow? At any reasonable tension, it exerts no more pressure than one’s underpants.

Re: NTSB: Cloud shot up vertically in front of plane before turbulence

#29

Post by thrill »

cinntaile wrote: post #13
thrill wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've never seen one form out of clear air that quickly, as the pilot said local conditions were. I have flown a high performance jet alongside a rising cumulus and "raced" a column forming on the side that was rising quickly - it won, as in I ran out of climb capability before it did.

What was the result? You couldn't outrun the turbulence?

Oh, I was solo in a jet trainer in a restricted (for me) area, so I just sliced off to the outside of the cloud with a big smile on my face.

Re: NTSB: Cloud shot up vertically in front of plane before turbulence

#30

Post by gryn »

ALittleLight wrote: post #16
alamortsubite wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think all airlines mention turbulence in the context of lap belts in their safety briefing. I know United does. Their passengers are no better behaved than what you've observed, though. Maybe there's a better way of getting the message across? Few people seem to pay any attention to the safety briefings, anyway. It's crazy.

Could just make an occupied seat's belt chime every n seconds it isn't buckled.

those people would just buckle the seat-belt and sit on it like they do in cars.
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