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Routine vaccinations drop among U.S. kindergartners for the third year in a row

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Re: Routine vaccinations drop among U.S. kindergartners for the third year in a row

#151

Post by yucky »

guidedlight wrote: post #39

Under Australia's "No Jab, No Pay" laws, families cannot receive government taxation benefits for their unvaccinated children. In addition, some states require an up to date vaccination record to be enrolled in pre-school, kindergarten, and in some states, primary school. Interestingly, it was News Limited (parent company of Fox News) that championed these laws. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_Jab,_No_Pay

  > Interestingly, it was News Limited (parent company of Fox News) that championed these laws
I don't think it's surprising that authoritarians like those at Fox News would support authoritarianism.

Re: Routine vaccinations drop among U.S. kindergartners for the third year in a row

#152

Post by Nextgrid »

hnfong wrote: post #61
lawn wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, that's what happens when conspiracy theories instill fear, uncertainty and doubt.

Conspiracy theories spread after good faith goes out of the window. They don't cause the loss of good faith.

Conspiracy theories spread when you let a medium that profits off "engagement" take over humanity's social fabric.

Back in the day that kind of crazy was relegated to the dark corners of the Internet and you had to explicitly seek it out.

Nowadays social media apps that claim to make it easier to connect with your family/friends will happily push these in front of you, knowing that getting you deep into that rabbit hole is likely to net them more "engagement".

The net result is that naive but well-meaning people who originally just wanted to keep in touch with friends/family got sucked deep into this bullshit.

Re: Routine vaccinations drop among U.S. kindergartners for the third year in a row

#153

Post by yucky »

watwut wrote: post #108
nnx wrote: post #31

This is really sad as it will probably cause unnecessary children deaths down the road. I think public health authorities have serious soul-searching to do, this outcome was clearly warned upon by a lot of doctors and paediatricians who seen first hand parents not understanding why those authorities were pushing so hard novel mrna covid-19 vaccines on healthy children that were basically not at risk from this disease…

No, it is fault of those who push against vaccines super hard for political reasons. It is absurd to blame anyone else at the point where we are. There are groups who are intentionally trying to convince people to not vaccinate. When people listen to them, it is theor fault.

The CDC lied to the public, knowingly, on multiple occasions. Of course that would lead to a complete loss of trust. This isn't surprising, and it was called out as a huge problem from Day 1.

And yet here we have Rochelle Wolensky the Director of the CDC straight up lying to the public (one of several instances of the CDC being dishonest) saying "Our data from the CDC today suggests that vaccinated people do not carry the virus, don't get sick, and that it's not just in the clinical trials, but it's also in real-world data."

https://www.businessinsider.com/cdc-director-data-vaccinated...

Re: Routine vaccinations drop among U.S. kindergartners for the third year in a row

#154

Post by yucky »

blumomo wrote: post #86
realjhol wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Why in 2023 people still believe that C19 mRNA prevents infecting others? This myth has long been classified as wrong (unlike advertised in the beginning of its rollout)

  > Why in 2023 people still believe that C19 mRNA prevents infecting others?
Because the Director of the CDC and the President of the United States have both at several times made this claim publicly.

The fact that we now know they were lying is why we're in this situation to begin with.

Re: Routine vaccinations drop among U.S. kindergartners for the third year in a row

#155

Post by yucky »

usea wrote: post #104
lolinder wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is a parent with a very specific kind of mindset about who should be the ultimate authority on their child. I think this may be your problem: you don't perceive the parent as the ultimate authority on the child. As a tutor, you fill a strictly advisory role, not a position of authority, and even your advisory role is limited in scope. If you try to exert authority or influence outside of that scope then yes, y…

Either parents should be allowed to kill their children on a whim without consequence, or parents are not the ultimate authority over their children. They are mutually exclusive beliefs. Children aren't property. They're human beings that deserve the protection of the state. Sometimes that means protection FROM their parents.

   > Sometimes that means protection FROM their parents.
And based on history, sometimes that means protection FROM the state.

Re: Routine vaccinations drop among U.S. kindergartners for the third year in a row

#156

Post by [deleted] »

rscho wrote: post #119
fidgewidge wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, it would have effects on people's health but those effects would be both positive and negative. They'd both have to be summed together, but even then, health isn't everything. A healthy society run by totalitarians is still a deeply unpleasant society to live in. Whooping cough vaccines and vaccines in general would still exist without public health. The difference is that it would be an individual decision to b…

There are very few public health interventions that are deleterious to even a fraction of the population, because the prime directive is "first, do no harm" and that's a very much entrenched principle of public health. Regarding vaccines, I chose the whooping cough example on purpose. This vaccine is only 60% efficient. The risk of newborns being killed or gravely ill would be highly increased if used only at the ind…

[deleted]

Re: Routine vaccinations drop among U.S. kindergartners for the third year in a row

#157

Post by dennis_jeeves1 »

fidgewidge wrote: post #82
roenxi wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have very mixed feelings about this policy. I don't want my government taking my money in taxes, then deploying it as welfare conditional on unrelated policies. Particularly because once the have this leverage they'll make more widespread use of it. Some (all, in fact) of the anti-vaxxers I know are extremely upstanding small businesspeople. I can imagine in the next pandemic that (1) the government will tax them h…

[flagged]

>Public health as a concept is one of unlimited totalitarianism. The public health community is made up of people who are comfortable with that.

Thanks, you have summarized what was on my mind.

Re: Routine vaccinations drop among U.S. kindergartners for the third year in a row

#158

Post by maxerickson »

realjhol wrote: post #55
hutzlibu wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, the push to vaccinate children was not for the children, but to protect the old. And what will likely happen now, is a stronger push for forced vaccinations, met by even more entrenching of the anti-vaxx crowd.

[flagged]

The vaccines are less risky than infection for children even though the risks from infection are low.

Are you somehow assuming that they aren't ever going to get infected?

Re: Routine vaccinations drop among U.S. kindergartners for the third year in a row

#159

Post by maxerickson »

hnfong wrote: post #61
lawn wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, that's what happens when conspiracy theories instill fear, uncertainty and doubt.

Conspiracy theories spread after good faith goes out of the window. They don't cause the loss of good faith.

Much of the COVID anti vaccine bullshit spun right out of the existing anti vax movement.

Re: Routine vaccinations drop among U.S. kindergartners for the third year in a row

#160

Post by mrphoebs »

realjhol wrote: post #143
mrphoebs wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lockdowns did help flatten the curve, many countries health systems were overwhelmed regardless, but without lockdowns the fatalities and outcomes for severe cases would have been an order of magnitude worse. -> personal experience: I survived only because I was able to get an ICU bed at the right time as did millions more in my country. Millions more didn't because the health systems were overwhelmed. It's hard to t…

> Lockdowns did help flatten the curve, many countries health systems were overwhelmed regardless, but without lockdowns the fatalities and outcomes for severe cases would have been an order of magnitude worse. There's no evidence to support this assertion, and plenty of evidence to the contrary e.g. Sweden. > It's hard to take your argument in good faith when you offhandedly say stuff like this -> "A lot of that stu…

>There's no evidence to support this assertion

Like all your other assertions this one feels self serving for your point of view when a rudimentary google search provides references to the alternative.

Consensus on efficacy of lockdowns flattening the curve with relevant bibliography.

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-022-02823-4

N of 1 as in what worked in Sweden (ranked 3rd in the global healthcare index and has a population lower than some cities in india) does not in any way shape or form meaningfully imply what would be good for the rest of the world (though it might certainly inform it)

I wasn't referring to the presence of fake/false/sensational/agenda driven narratives or your allusion to them, I was referring to your following offhanded assertions.

" Lockdowns were there to reduce the secondary consequences from running out of capacity.

That was the claim, certainly. But as we predicted, this never actually happened anywhere in the world - not even in places where people live in poverty, and healthcare is virtually non-existant."

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