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Routine vaccinations drop among U.S. kindergartners for the third year in a row

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Re: Routine vaccinations drop among U.S. kindergartners for the third year in a row

#31
This is really sad as it will probably cause unnecessary children deaths down the road.

I think public health authorities have serious soul-searching to do, this outcome was clearly warned upon by a lot of doctors and paediatricians who seen first hand parents not understanding why those authorities were pushing so hard novel mrna covid-19 vaccines on healthy children that were basically not at risk from this disease.

Re: Routine vaccinations drop among U.S. kindergartners for the third year in a row

#32
post #20

I am not sure what the best way to communicate with these kinds of parents is. This is a parent with a very specific kind of mindset about who should be the ultimate authority on their child. More often than not, it becomes unhealthy for the child living in this environment both physically and emotionally. Everyone understands the parents ultimately mean no harm, but their warped perception of science, among other th…

> very specific kind of mindset about who should be the ultimate authority on their child What are you referring to here?

I believe he is saying that the state has ultimate authority over their child, not the parent.

Re: Routine vaccinations drop among U.S. kindergartners for the third year in a row

#33
post #6

That’s what happens when you burn a lot of good faith.

No, that's what happens if people lack self-reflection. If they had asked themselves if there is any chance that they could possibly know better than someone who's working on a topic all the time, the answer would have been a resounding no, no matter the topic in question.

It is almost unperceivable to people who truly have faith, that other might not believe in the same higher authority as them.

This is a story as old as time.

Re: Routine vaccinations drop among U.S. kindergartners for the third year in a row

#34
post #20

I am not sure what the best way to communicate with these kinds of parents is. This is a parent with a very specific kind of mindset about who should be the ultimate authority on their child. More often than not, it becomes unhealthy for the child living in this environment both physically and emotionally. Everyone understands the parents ultimately mean no harm, but their warped perception of science, among other th…

So in your capacity as a tutor, do you think you are qualified to make medical diagnoses of and medical decisions for other people's children? It's generally thought that this is the parents' decision because they have the most information about the child and the biggest "stake" in their child's success.

Has it occurred to you that you might be working with incomplete information? Has it occurred to you that your conclusions might be wrong?

Re: Routine vaccinations drop among U.S. kindergartners for the third year in a row

#35
post #20

I am not sure what the best way to communicate with these kinds of parents is. This is a parent with a very specific kind of mindset about who should be the ultimate authority on their child. More often than not, it becomes unhealthy for the child living in this environment both physically and emotionally. Everyone understands the parents ultimately mean no harm, but their warped perception of science, among other th…

> This is a parent with a very specific kind of mindset about who should be the ultimate authority on their child.

I think this may be your problem: you don't perceive the parent as the ultimate authority on the child.

As a tutor, you fill a strictly advisory role, not a position of authority, and even your advisory role is limited in scope. If you try to exert authority or influence outside of that scope then yes, you will run into a wall. You have to accept that your ability to influence extends only as far as the parents' trust in you.

As you gain trust, the circle in which you can exert influence expands, but you have to know where the boundaries are because every time you step out of them you lose trust and your ability to influence becomes weaker, not stronger.

Re: Routine vaccinations drop among U.S. kindergartners for the third year in a row

#36

We're shopping around for a pediatrician for our forthcoming baby and several offices we called said they will only accept new patients who will commit to a full schedule of vaccines. That's fine with us, but I got the feeling some providers are just tired of having the same stupid arguments with parents.

Our pediatrician (not in the US) has the same policy. She mentioned that the people that reject recommended vaccinations are often the same that show up with a highly contagious child at the front desk, asking for immediate treatment instead of calling ahead and being let in at a dedicated side entrance to avoid endangering other patients.

Re: Routine vaccinations drop among U.S. kindergartners for the third year in a row

#37
post #6

That’s what happens when you burn a lot of good faith.

No, that's what happens if people lack self-reflection. If they had asked themselves if there is any chance that they could possibly know better than someone who's working on a topic all the time, the answer would have been a resounding no, no matter the topic in question.

While any sane person would agree in general, it isn't hard to find examples of experts in any domain who made some mistake in that domain at some point.

Also, normal people are absolutely terrible about probability.

Combined, I therefore suspect it's "I know they're normally right, but not about this."

Re: Routine vaccinations drop among U.S. kindergartners for the third year in a row

#38
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not all of the required "vaccines" have been around for decades. One of them is very new and that one seems to have a lot of controversy when it comes to kids and mounting questions on if it is safe or effective for said age group. Even mainstream news networks like the BBC are starting to air concerns from their own medical experts

See the "routine" in the title? The linked-to page says those are: "measles, mumps, and rubella (MMR) shot; the diphtheria, tetanus, and acellular pertussis (DTaP) shot; and the shots against poliovirus and varicella (chickenpox)." Not COVID vaccination.

Messaging and PR equated the new controversial vaccine with the older routine ones (in the sense of safety and effectiveness, leveraging their track record) and -- surprise -- it goes both ways - it has cast some of the controversy back onto the routine ones.

A lot of people who had never in their life questioned vaccine safety or necessity, are now looking into them and not always coming with the conclusion that they are needed.

Re: Routine vaccinations drop among U.S. kindergartners for the third year in a row

#39
Under Australia's "No Jab, No Pay" laws, families cannot receive government taxation benefits for their unvaccinated children. In addition, some states require an up to date vaccination record to be enrolled in pre-school, kindergarten, and in some states, primary school.

Interestingly, it was News Limited (parent company of Fox News) that championed these laws.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_Jab,_No_Pay

Re: Routine vaccinations drop among U.S. kindergartners for the third year in a row

#40
post #6

That’s what happens when you burn a lot of good faith.

No, that's what happens if people lack self-reflection. If they had asked themselves if there is any chance that they could possibly know better than someone who's working on a topic all the time, the answer would have been a resounding no, no matter the topic in question.

In my personal experience... you are wrong. I mean, the part about knowing better than someone that works with something.

People working in some fields often suffer the "It Is Difficult to Get a Man to Understand Something When His Salary Depends Upon His Not Understanding It"

Example: I have Hashimoto's Disease. All endocrinologists I went to, wouldn't help me, some of them burned a lot of my money trying to prove I had diabetes or other disease that could lead to expensive treatment (one insisted I had cancer, despite every test for cancer she asked for, returning negative). In the end to get treatment I got help from an Ophthalmologist, that even explained to me some things I didn't knew about the disease.

Example 2: when I was having some mental issues, all psychiatrists kept giving me random meds that were recently patented and expensive, and refused to let me get Ritalin, that was cheap because generic version of it exists. In the end the solution was ritalin. To get the ritalin I went to a psychiatrist that inherited lots of wealth and focused treating poor people, I suspect that psychiatrist in particular is the only one not getting dinners, parties and other "marketing events" from manufacturers. (I also in one point of my career worked in a software company that one project was make an app for the pharma client sales team track all the "gifts" given to doctors...)

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