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Routine vaccinations drop among U.S. kindergartners for the third year in a row

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Re: Routine vaccinations drop among U.S. kindergartners for the third year in a row

#111

Post by grjdiofgeriov »

knaik94 wrote: post #92
blumomo wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why in 2023 people still believe that C19 mRNA prevents infecting others? This myth has long been classified as wrong (unlike advertised in the beginning of its rollout)

If you don't become infected, you can't infect others. The vaccine reduces the chances of you become sick with covid.

If you don't know you are infected, you increase the risk of infecting others. As we know, the primary effect of the various vaccines was to reduce the incidences of symptomatic covid.

"Becoming sick with Covid" and "becoming infected with Covid" are very different things.

Re: Routine vaccinations drop among U.S. kindergartners for the third year in a row

#112

Post by fidgewidge »

Xylakant wrote: post #69
fidgewidge wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The alternative to the parents being the authority, is that the state is, but the state has lied constantly about everything related to COVID and children so that would be far worse. in Europe it’s mandatory to send your child to school - whether the parents want it or not. No it's not. It's mandatory to educate them. Home schooling exists in Europe and parents who think teachers at a school are teaching children thi…

No home schooling exists in germany - all children must go to a state-approved school and that school must follow the standard curriculum. There are a handful of possible exceptions - serious illness for example - but in the general case it’s not legal and may result in (partial) loss of custody. See for example https://www.lto.de/recht/nachrichten/n/olg-karlsruhe-5ufh322...

So why did you say Europe when you meant Germany?

Re: Routine vaccinations drop among U.S. kindergartners for the third year in a row

#113

Post by watwut »

hnfong wrote: post #61
lawn wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, that's what happens when conspiracy theories instill fear, uncertainty and doubt.

Conspiracy theories spread after good faith goes out of the window. They don't cause the loss of good faith.

That is not true, they were there from start. They don't require any wrongdoing on the part of their "ennemies".

Re: Routine vaccinations drop among U.S. kindergartners for the third year in a row

#114

Post by SangareEel »

justintime11 wrote: post #62
guidedlight wrote: post #39

Under Australia's "No Jab, No Pay" laws, families cannot receive government taxation benefits for their unvaccinated children. In addition, some states require an up to date vaccination record to be enrolled in pre-school, kindergarten, and in some states, primary school. Interestingly, it was News Limited (parent company of Fox News) that championed these laws. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_Jab,_No_Pay

This absolutely must be responded with "No Pay, No Taxes" When the government fails to provide services at all, taxation reaches an unacceptable level of violent theft.

[flagged]

Re: Routine vaccinations drop among U.S. kindergartners for the third year in a row

#115

Post by ImaCake »

fidgewidge wrote: post #82
roenxi wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have very mixed feelings about this policy. I don't want my government taking my money in taxes, then deploying it as welfare conditional on unrelated policies. Particularly because once the have this leverage they'll make more widespread use of it. Some (all, in fact) of the anti-vaxxers I know are extremely upstanding small businesspeople. I can imagine in the next pandemic that (1) the government will tax them h…

[flagged]

This is such a frustrating comment to read. There is plenty of debate in public health about what is and isn’t appropriate. A lot of effort is put into communicating the often confusing and oblique conclusions of biology in such a way that people will understand and also be willing to take actions that will help themselves. Covid was, predictably, a massive defeat for public health.

Also, you may have noticed that there are not really any restrictions despite covid still being around. There are limits on that power, although I imagine you think that those limits should be in a different place.

Re: Routine vaccinations drop among U.S. kindergartners for the third year in a row

#116

Post by leesalminen »

jurassic wrote: post #12

We're shopping around for a pediatrician for our forthcoming baby and several offices we called said they will only accept new patients who will commit to a full schedule of vaccines. That's fine with us, but I got the feeling some providers are just tired of having the same stupid arguments with parents.

We hired a concierge doctor for our son for the first 2 years post birth.

We had mediocre insurance from an employer at the time. After doing the math, it wasn’t really that much more expensive. And the benefits are huge!

Answers the phone the first time 24x7, they come to your house, no need to sit in a waiting room, willing to personalize care instead of a cookie cutter model.

It was really great for our family. Also, our son was born 60 days before the COVID outbreak, so all of those benefits really shined.

Re: Routine vaccinations drop among U.S. kindergartners for the third year in a row

#117

Post by pclmulqdq »

blibble wrote: post #93
pclmulqdq wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is actually not true - reverse transcriptase is present in your cells, and has been known to add code from viral RNA to your DNA, sometimes permanently.

you are thinking of integrase, which is not present and there is no primer site on the mRNA for RT to operate if it was that easy for random bits of floating mRNA to integrate itself into your DNA then we'd never make it to the point of being born

I'm not suggesting that it's normal, easy, or within the everyday functions of a cell.

The parent comment said "...it's not possible..."

It demonstrably is possible, and has happened before in the genetic record of humans.

Re: Routine vaccinations drop among U.S. kindergartners for the third year in a row

#118

Post by ben_w »

mrphoebs wrote: post #109
ben_w wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Noted. I'm not sure how to make the same points without saying that some of the statements were weasel words, but if you could suggest a different way to make the same points, I'd appreciate it. (Apart from anything else, I know that raising the other party's heart rate is a terrible way to change their minds).

I think you were half way there taking charitable view on one of the arguments, I think taking a charitable view on the commenter's perspective/intent would have gotten you all the way. With that adjustment, I think you can go from "weasel words" to "Your perspective might be flawed..." Apologies, if this comes off as patronising.

> Apologies, if this comes off as patronising.

Thanks for checking; don't worry, it wasn't.

Re: Routine vaccinations drop among U.S. kindergartners for the third year in a row

#119

Post by rscho »

fidgewidge wrote: post #106
rscho wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't delete public health and expect unchanged levels of care individually. Health at the individual level very much depends on public health policies. Don't believe me? Have fun watching your newborn die from whooping cough!

Yes, it would have effects on people's health but those effects would be both positive and negative. They'd both have to be summed together, but even then, health isn't everything. A healthy society run by totalitarians is still a deeply unpleasant society to live in. Whooping cough vaccines and vaccines in general would still exist without public health. The difference is that it would be an individual decision to b…

There are very few public health interventions that are deleterious to even a fraction of the population, because the prime directive is "first, do no harm" and that's a very much entrenched principle of public health.

Regarding vaccines, I chose the whooping cough example on purpose. This vaccine is only 60% efficient. The risk of newborns being killed or gravely ill would be highly increased if used only at the individual level, including for a particular person choosing to vaccinate.

Your view of risks and benefits involved is very much skewed by your overconfidence in individual medicine. It is widely known that poulation-level interventions aka public health are the most effective (e.g. the Cuban system).

Re: Routine vaccinations drop among U.S. kindergartners for the third year in a row

#120

Post by ImaCake »

SangareEel wrote: post #114
justintime11 wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This absolutely must be responded with "No Pay, No Taxes" When the government fails to provide services at all, taxation reaches an unacceptable level of violent theft.

[flagged]

Pretty sure this is just a racist comment. A quick look at the demographics data for Australia shows it to be overwhelmingly white european - even if we restrict ourselves to the White Australia Policy definitions.
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