That’s what happens when you burn a lot of good faith.
No, that's what happens when conspiracy theories instill fear, uncertainty and doubt.
Conspiracy theories spread after good faith goes out of the window. They don't cause the loss of good faith.
Routine vaccinations drop among U.S. kindergartners for the third year in a row
61–70 of 234 posts
Re: Routine vaccinations drop among U.S. kindergartners for the third year in a row
#62Under Australia's "No Jab, No Pay" laws, families cannot receive government taxation benefits for their unvaccinated children. In addition, some states require an up to date vaccination record to be enrolled in pre-school, kindergarten, and in some states, primary school. Interestingly, it was News Limited (parent company of Fox News) that championed these laws. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_Jab,_No_Pay
This absolutely must be responded with
"No Pay, No Taxes"
When the government fails to provide services at all, taxation reaches an unacceptable level of violent theft.
Re: Routine vaccinations drop among U.S. kindergartners for the third year in a row
#63Earlier quoted context omitted.
It is almost unperceivable to people who truly have faith, that other might not believe in the same higher authority as them. This is a story as old as time.
This is very true. I don't know if you're saying that about vaccination providers or anti-vax campaigners (Deliberate ambiguity? I ask because I do that sometime). While there is a massive difference in evidence supporting these two sides, as I have a mere GCSE grade C in biology, I necessarily have to just have faith in the research methods and licensing regimes that made my 4 Covid jabs and humpteen others. Not una…
Why? There's no requirement that you get a credential from a particular group in society before being allowed to distrust them. If such a rule really existed it'd be a field day for scammers. For example nobody would be allowed to doubt any claim related to Web3 if they hadn't already spent years writing smart contracts. Or they wouldn't be allowed to decide Tesla FSD isn't safe enough, because they aren't themselves self driving car researchers.
It's really smart to distrust vaccine providers and public health authorities. Having blind faith in them is bad. You don't need a credential to see that, you just have to observe that they constantly make strong claims in favor of vaccines that they later walk back when it's too late, without any consequences whatsoever.
Re: Routine vaccinations drop among U.S. kindergartners for the third year in a row
#64Earlier quoted context omitted.
It is almost unperceivable to people who truly have faith, that other might not believe in the same higher authority as them. This is a story as old as time.
Faith has no impact on my decision to prefer not to be the guinea pig for experimental gene therapy, that results in micro clotting and turning your body into a spike protein factory. I have no issue with traditional vaccination, but this is nothing like a vaccination. They wouldn't have needed to change the definition of vaccination if it was. They wouldn't need to push this 24/7 on every possible platform if it wor…
it is not possible for your DNA to be modified by the mRNA vaccines, so it is not gene therapy
and the virus will turn your body into a spike protein factory regardless
Re: Routine vaccinations drop among U.S. kindergartners for the third year in a row
#65Earlier quoted context omitted.
> This is a parent with a very specific kind of mindset about who should be the ultimate authority on their child. I think this may be your problem: you don't perceive the parent as the ultimate authority on the child. As a tutor, you fill a strictly advisory role, not a position of authority, and even your advisory role is limited in scope. If you try to exert authority or influence outside of that scope then yes, y…
But the question is whether parents should be the ultimate authority on the child, and the law in many countries does not support that. The lines get drawn at different points in different countries, but many have laws against child endangerment etc. For example, in Europe it’s mandatory to send your child to school - whether the parents want it or not. Some parts of the curriculum are mandatory, whether the parents…
The alternative to the parents being the authority, is that the state is, but the state has lied constantly about everything related to COVID and children so that would be far worse.
in Europe it’s mandatory to send your child to school - whether the parents want it or not.
No it's not. It's mandatory to educate them. Home schooling exists in Europe and parents who think teachers at a school are teaching children things that are wrong can do various things about it.
Re: Routine vaccinations drop among U.S. kindergartners for the third year in a row
#66I am not sure what the best way to communicate with these kinds of parents is. This is a parent with a very specific kind of mindset about who should be the ultimate authority on their child. More often than not, it becomes unhealthy for the child living in this environment both physically and emotionally. Everyone understands the parents ultimately mean no harm, but their warped perception of science, among other th…
> This is a parent with a very specific kind of mindset about who should be the ultimate authority on their child. I think this may be your problem: you don't perceive the parent as the ultimate authority on the child. As a tutor, you fill a strictly advisory role, not a position of authority, and even your advisory role is limited in scope. If you try to exert authority or influence outside of that scope then yes, y…
I completely understand that the parents are the ultimate authority. I feel like I was in a position where I could have done more. I can't imagine how many times a teacher must feel the same throughout their years of teaching. I feel a lot of empathy for the child since I can relate. But that might make me more impatient about certain things than I would like to admit.
The specific situation I am thinking of is when the parents asked me about my opinons on ADHD treatment. I have volunteered my diagnosis when I learned one of the reasons for the student being sent to me was difficulty in school. I had my suspicions on the beginning, but I know kids grow at different paces. But then his a few school teacher recommended testing as well. He was professionally tested and showed that he would benefit from proper treatment.
The parents and I speak the same language, and they are immigrants, and so they trusted me with a lot of responsiblity regarding their child's schooling. I became sort of a translator too between the teachers and the parents, when appropriate.
It doesn't feel like I am putting myself in a position of authority when I am arguing for evidence backed actions. I don't mean medication, but in this case the parents didn't share the "diagnosis" with the school, which would have helped the student recieve accomodations through official channels. In that case it feels less about what's best for the child and more about how the parents want others to percieve their child.
But you make a good point, even that might be something the parents take as me overstepping my authority.
Re: Routine vaccinations drop among U.S. kindergartners for the third year in a row
#67That’s what happens when you burn a lot of good faith.
No, that's what happens when conspiracy theories instill fear, uncertainty and doubt.
We had the news spreading fear, the need to bow to authorities and consumerism, and attacking anyone who tried to think for themselves.
And you attack conspiracy theorists who turned out to be right about a number of aspects of the pandemic?
Re: Routine vaccinations drop among U.S. kindergartners for the third year in a row
#68Earlier quoted context omitted.
No, that's what happens if people lack self-reflection. If they had asked themselves if there is any chance that they could possibly know better than someone who's working on a topic all the time, the answer would have been a resounding no, no matter the topic in question.
Actually yes, sometimes an outsider opinion can be the correct one... that is the very essence of scientific enquiry - to ask questions. Who am I? Some rando on the Internet, but I correctly assessed that the vaccines wouldn't prevent transmission, carried a non-zero risk of side effects - sometimes extremely serious, that natural immunity would provide far greater protection, that vaccination was unnecessary for chi…
> We have been proven correct about every single one of these things
No, you haven't.
> natural immunity would provide far greater protection
false
> vaccines wouldn't prevent transmission, carried a non-zero risk of side effects
"Prevent" and "non-zero" are weasel words, that sentence as written is true of literally every treatment and prophylactic in existence forever.
But it does reduce the risk of transmission even in the case of prisoners sharing a cell.
And the risks of side effects are much, much lower than the risks of those effects from the actual illness.
> that there would no benefit to lock downs, and that masks were pointless.
False on both counts.
Lockdowns were there to reduce the secondary consequences from running out of capacity. Several places ran out of capacity to handle the dead, let alone the living. I still don't understand how we were able to get short of medical oxygen, but that happened in some places too.
Masks likewise, reduce the transmission rate. Not eliminate, reduce. That's not pointless.
> that vaccination was unnecessary for children and younger adults,
Weasel phrasing, "unnecessary" can mean anything. But, I will try to interpret generously as possible: Sure, lots of kids and young adults won't die, they'll only get sick for a few weeks, with unknown long term damage.
Re: Routine vaccinations drop among U.S. kindergartners for the third year in a row
#69Earlier quoted context omitted.
But the question is whether parents should be the ultimate authority on the child, and the law in many countries does not support that. The lines get drawn at different points in different countries, but many have laws against child endangerment etc. For example, in Europe it’s mandatory to send your child to school - whether the parents want it or not. Some parts of the curriculum are mandatory, whether the parents…
The alternative to the parents being the authority, is that the state is, but the state has lied constantly about everything related to COVID and children so that would be far worse. in Europe it’s mandatory to send your child to school - whether the parents want it or not. No it's not. It's mandatory to educate them. Home schooling exists in Europe and parents who think teachers at a school are teaching children thi…
No home schooling exists in germany - all children must go to a state-approved school and that school must follow the standard curriculum. There are a handful of possible exceptions - serious illness for example - but in the general case it’s not legal and may result in (partial) loss of custody.
See for example https://www.lto.de/recht/nachrichten/n/olg-karlsruhe-5ufh322...
Re: Routine vaccinations drop among U.S. kindergartners for the third year in a row
#70I am not sure what the best way to communicate with these kinds of parents is. This is a parent with a very specific kind of mindset about who should be the ultimate authority on their child. More often than not, it becomes unhealthy for the child living in this environment both physically and emotionally. Everyone understands the parents ultimately mean no harm, but their warped perception of science, among other th…
Did you think that the problem may be the other way around? Their perception of the reliability of "the science" is accurate and yours is warped.
The last years have split the population into those who blindly believe in academic and government scientific claims, regardless of how incredible those claims are or how frequently they turn out to have been wrong. And the rest, who don't treat science religiously, and who develop doubt when they see untrustworthy behavior. The first camp can't understand the second because they don't even try to. They feel the righteousness of the true believer.
So here's the suggestion. If you're really a tutor who has such great understanding of the science, try debating with the parents and investigate any claims they make to justify their beliefs honestly. Do Your Own Research. Do not attempt to brainwash the child bypassing the parents. That will simply reinforce their pre-existing beliefs that people who are pro-vaccine are engaged in scientism, can't defend their beliefs and prefer to use communist-style tactics to manipulate others (like turning children against their parents). It will cause them to double down.