Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Routine vaccinations drop among U.S. kindergartners for the third year in a row

statnews.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

81–90 of 234 posts

Re: Routine vaccinations drop among U.S. kindergartners for the third year in a row

#81

Post by knaik94 »

fidgewidge wrote: post #70
knaik94 wrote: post #20

I am not sure what the best way to communicate with these kinds of parents is. This is a parent with a very specific kind of mindset about who should be the ultimate authority on their child. More often than not, it becomes unhealthy for the child living in this environment both physically and emotionally. Everyone understands the parents ultimately mean no harm, but their warped perception of science, among other th…

Did you think that the problem may be the other way around? Their perception of the reliability of "the science" is accurate and yours is warped. The last years have split the population into those who blindly believe in academic and government scientific claims, regardless of how incredible those claims are or how frequently they turn out to have been wrong. And the rest, who don't treat science religiously, and who…

That is some very charged language. Showing empathy and helping a child become better at critical thinking isn't anything close to brainwashing. Maybe you're trying to use language that you imagine the parents might think in, but that's not charitable to them either. By asking this question, I felt like I was making it clear that I am trying to understand the parents and reach some middle ground.

Re: Routine vaccinations drop among U.S. kindergartners for the third year in a row

#82

Post by fidgewidge »

roenxi wrote: post #53
guidedlight wrote: post #39

Under Australia's "No Jab, No Pay" laws, families cannot receive government taxation benefits for their unvaccinated children. In addition, some states require an up to date vaccination record to be enrolled in pre-school, kindergarten, and in some states, primary school. Interestingly, it was News Limited (parent company of Fox News) that championed these laws. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_Jab,_No_Pay

I have very mixed feelings about this policy. I don't want my government taking my money in taxes, then deploying it as welfare conditional on unrelated policies. Particularly because once the have this leverage they'll make more widespread use of it. Some (all, in fact) of the anti-vaxxers I know are extremely upstanding small businesspeople. I can imagine in the next pandemic that (1) the government will tax them h…

[flagged]

Re: Routine vaccinations drop among U.S. kindergartners for the third year in a row

#83

Post by iamben »

hnfong wrote: post #61
lawn wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, that's what happens when conspiracy theories instill fear, uncertainty and doubt.

Conspiracy theories spread after good faith goes out of the window. They don't cause the loss of good faith.

I'm not sure I agree completely. Certainly over the pandemic I saw conspiracies appear right from the start, and then the goalposts shifted on most of them to fit around the current situation and messaging. I think a handful of people took huge advantage of a difficult situation to further their own agenda.

That said, I absolutely agree 'normal' people were pushed to the limit in a way that made them look for anything that made sense of what was happening around them.

Re: Routine vaccinations drop among U.S. kindergartners for the third year in a row

#84

Post by knaik94 »

pclmulqdq wrote: post #34
knaik94 wrote: post #20

I am not sure what the best way to communicate with these kinds of parents is. This is a parent with a very specific kind of mindset about who should be the ultimate authority on their child. More often than not, it becomes unhealthy for the child living in this environment both physically and emotionally. Everyone understands the parents ultimately mean no harm, but their warped perception of science, among other th…

So in your capacity as a tutor, do you think you are qualified to make medical diagnoses of and medical decisions for other people's children? It's generally thought that this is the parents' decision because they have the most information about the child and the biggest "stake" in their child's success. Has it occurred to you that you might be working with incomplete information? Has it occurred to you that your con…

I have a diagnosis. Their teachers suspected a diagnosis and the child was tested. The child would benefit from treatment. The parents were asking for my opinion. As a tutor, I would be one of the first people that would know if a student is struggling and needs testing for a learning disorder.

These situations I am talking about are specifically when the parent is clearly choosing to disregard information because they don't trust it or want it to be wrong for one reason or another. I don't understand why it's still such a divisive thing when the idea of parents being wrong is brought up. Parents, like all humans, have the capacity to do bad/wrong things with good intentions.

Pediatricians face the same situation every day when dealing with this type of parent.

EDIT: The child was tested by a healthcare profesional and was diagosed and medication was recommended. And I went through the same school system. They came to me for advice.

Re: Routine vaccinations drop among U.S. kindergartners for the third year in a row

#85

Post by Avamander »

akomtu wrote: post #75
lawn wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, that's what happens when conspiracy theories instill fear, uncertainty and doubt.

Conspiracy theories is the weeds that sprawl when common sense is sterilized with dogma.

No, it's the weeds that sprawl when education is constantly underfunded, demonized and people's access to good education is constantly hindered. All while idiocies are given the same amount of platform as rigorous methods out of "need for a debate" when there was going to be none to begin with.

It's not "dogma" to "sterilize" some fringe idiocies, just implying that is often pretty much helping that sewer just fester under our noses.

Re: Routine vaccinations drop among U.S. kindergartners for the third year in a row

#86

Post by blumomo »

realjhol wrote: post #55
hutzlibu wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, the push to vaccinate children was not for the children, but to protect the old. And what will likely happen now, is a stronger push for forced vaccinations, met by even more entrenching of the anti-vaxx crowd.

[flagged]

Why in 2023 people still believe that C19 mRNA prevents infecting others? This myth has long been classified as wrong (unlike advertised in the beginning of its rollout)

Re: Routine vaccinations drop among U.S. kindergartners for the third year in a row

#87

Post by notahacker »

Mountain_Skies wrote: post #49
lawn wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, that's what happens when conspiracy theories instill fear, uncertainty and doubt.

When did you switch from hating masks to loving masks? What caused your switch? Why caused you to hate them before you loved them? Was it a conspiracy?

Let's make the exceptionally charitable assumption that you are asking this question in good faith...

Nobody that listened to public health experts ever "hated" masks. But initially, they didn't rush out to buy masks because the advice was to prioritise isolating the infected, social distancing for everyone else and clean hands to avoid [overestimated risk of] contact transmission, and not to rely on masks to protect you from infected people because there was no evidence they would offer that protection (the only masks they had reasonable confidence might work were far too limited in supply to stop it on a population level)

The recommendation changed (pretty quickly, based on stronger evidence of aerosol transmission and asymptomatic transmission and COVID being sufficiently widespread to make altogether avoiding contagious people unrealistic) to suggesting that although social distancing was recommended because cloth masks alone were insufficiently effective at preventing infection, masks were better than nothing and so on a population scale wearing them in public places would slow infection rates. At this point - even though I'd already had the infection - I started wearing a mask to the supermarket because apart from it being logical, it was also required to enter. It wasn't much of an imposition, and subsequent evidence largely supports the reduced transmission risk.

I think the question works better in reverse. When was it you switched from being angry at the CDC for telling you not to bother with the masks because they couldn't altogether prevent infection so you were better off avoiding people with COVID altogether to being angry at the CDC for recommending masks in public places to somewhat reduce risk of infection? What was the scientific evidence that lead you to change your mind?

Re: Routine vaccinations drop among U.S. kindergartners for the third year in a row

#88

Post by NhanH »

nabla9 wrote: post #73
speeder wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my personal experience... you are wrong. I mean, the part about knowing better than someone that works with something. People working in some fields often suffer the "It Is Difficult to Get a Man to Understand Something When His Salary Depends Upon His Not Understanding It" Example: I have Hashimoto's Disease. All endocrinologists I went to, wouldn't help me, some of them burned a lot of my money trying to prove I…

Thank you for sharing your personal experience. Unfortunately sharing personal stories like this in the internet is the source of much grief for three reasons: 1) There is no way to quantify how likely this is from personal stories. If your experience is 1 in 100 event, you are doing more harm sharing it than not sharing it if 1 in 10 becomes too suspicious to follow diagnosis. 2) We really don't know. Either things…

So “lived experience” matters until it is against the dogma.

Sharing personal story likes this is the reason the internet being a wonderful place. It should always be recommended as long as it is truthful, and doesn’t involve explicit agenda of spamming out other experience or information.

Re: Routine vaccinations drop among U.S. kindergartners for the third year in a row

#89

Post by Avamander »

newsclues wrote: post #67
lawn wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, that's what happens when conspiracy theories instill fear, uncertainty and doubt.

We had the news spreading fear, the need to bow to authorities and consumerism, and attacking anyone who tried to think for themselves. And you attack conspiracy theorists who turned out to be right about a number of aspects of the pandemic?

A broken clock is right twice a day, some of these "predictions" are a coin toss to get right. This doesn't ever make the rest of those talking points more valid.

Re: Routine vaccinations drop among U.S. kindergartners for the third year in a row

#90

Post by newsclues »

Avamander wrote: post #89
newsclues wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We had the news spreading fear, the need to bow to authorities and consumerism, and attacking anyone who tried to think for themselves. And you attack conspiracy theorists who turned out to be right about a number of aspects of the pandemic?

A broken clock is right twice a day, some of these "predictions" are a coin toss to get right. This doesn't ever make the rest of those talking points more valid.

Some of the critics are biologists who have been right more than the “experts” on TV.

So your comment applies to the establishment voices who straight up lied to the public and some people like yourself seemed to believe the liars. Lol!

Post reply on HN