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We need a lot more electricians

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Re: We need a lot more electricians

#111

Post by throwawayacc3 »

kuschku wrote: post #47
danans wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but it's important to keep in mind the voltage differences and that effect on total power: > UK: 100 A x 230 V = 23,00 W > US: 200 A x 120 V = 24,00 W That's incorrect. The service drop in the US is 220V. It gets stepped down at the main load center to 120V for most of the regular circuits. So it's more like 48000W service in US houses.

The service drop in EU/UK is 380V. The point stands.

That is incorrect. The EU/UK are on 230V at 50Hz at residential service entry. The point does not stand.

Re: We need a lot more electricians

#112

Post by bluGill »

ilyt wrote: post #105
brodouevencode wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where do you live? In a lot of municipalities any out-of-code work can remain unless they are actively touching that part of the system. For instance, if you had ungrounded outlets in your house, but were just getting a drop for a ceiling fan you wouldn't have to install grounds as part of that work. So they must have been having to touch all those components anyway.

If you're mounting EV charger, or heat pump you'd me most likely running separate circuit off main box for them. Which means you have to fix the main box. Which is most expensive part to fix.

Most of the time the main box is good enough. Fuses are still legal. There are a few boxes that are safety hazards, but if you have one you should replace it even if not planning any other work (some circuit breakers don't trip when overloaded!).

Re: We need a lot more electricians

#113

Post by ilyt »

epistasis wrote: post #31
mfer wrote: post #15

The article is touching on the important issue of homes but is missing three very important related issues. 1) The network that delivers power to the home. It's not able to handle everyone electrifying everything. If you electrify everything (electric stove, electric car, air conditioner/heater) you are going to be hard pressed in many locales to be covered by at home solar. 2) Electricity generation. We need a lot m…

There is mooooore than enough spare grid capacity to deliver the electricity to electrify homes. We size the grid for peak capacity, not for average capacity, which means that there's a very low overall usage amount. And the big drivers of additional electricity, heating and transportation, are easily shiftable to non-peak times. And as we have smarter devices, and more time of use billing, load shifting will be easy…

>We size the grid for peak capacity, not for average capacity, which means that there's a very low overall usage amount. And the big drivers of additional electricity, heating and transportation, are easily shiftable to non-peak times.

How's heating "shifttable" ? None of the usual systems to heat house does it (inertia is not the same)

Re: We need a lot more electricians

#114

Post by londons_explore »

anikom15 wrote: post #100
londons_explore wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> likely have some non-compliance with the current electrical code. It frustrates me that every year quite a lot of people are killed due to old houses not having whole-building GFCI's. A GFCI costs only $20 and can be installed inside 10 minutes. So it seems crazy to be letting people die... Yet typically electrical regs require that if an electrician installs a GFCI, they bring the whole house up to modern standard…

Which country? In the U.S., GFCIs only need to be installed in specific locations, which is good. I do not want my refrigerator or computer on a GFCI. In the U.K., you just can’t have plugs in bathrooms (aside from the shaver plug), which is probably more sensible.

They only need to be installed in specific places... But they ought to be installed for the whole house.

You do want your refrigerator on one. What when your mom is putting a metal saucepan into the fridge of leftovers, knocks and smashes the lamp inside, and the AC lamp power supply kills her though the metal saucepan?

What when a baby puts a fork into an electrical outlet in the living room?

What when floodwater comes in and kills everyone on the ground floor of your house while you are frantically wading in the water trying to move furniture upstairs?

There are plenty of times you want a whole house GFCI.

Re: We need a lot more electricians

#115

Post by mfer »

cinntaile wrote: post #45
mfer wrote: post #15

The article is touching on the important issue of homes but is missing three very important related issues. 1) The network that delivers power to the home. It's not able to handle everyone electrifying everything. If you electrify everything (electric stove, electric car, air conditioner/heater) you are going to be hard pressed in many locales to be covered by at home solar. 2) Electricity generation. We need a lot m…

I don't get what frozen pipes has to do with electrifying the home?

There is a push to move to electric heat generation in homes in some areas. If electricity goes out you loose heat. In many areas you can have weeks (even months) where the temperature is below freezing. Loose heat to your home and your pipes can freeze. When this happens they burst causing damage to the home.

Re: We need a lot more electricians

#116

Post by tibbon »

anikom15 wrote: post #100
londons_explore wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> likely have some non-compliance with the current electrical code. It frustrates me that every year quite a lot of people are killed due to old houses not having whole-building GFCI's. A GFCI costs only $20 and can be installed inside 10 minutes. So it seems crazy to be letting people die... Yet typically electrical regs require that if an electrician installs a GFCI, they bring the whole house up to modern standard…

Which country? In the U.S., GFCIs only need to be installed in specific locations, which is good. I do not want my refrigerator or computer on a GFCI. In the U.K., you just can’t have plugs in bathrooms (aside from the shaver plug), which is probably more sensible.

You need a AFCI in most places now. In the 2020 edition of the NEC®, Section 210.12 requires that for dwelling units, all 120-volt, single-phase, 15- and 20-ampere branch circuits supplying outlets or devices installed in dwelling unit kitchens, family rooms, dining rooms, living rooms, parlors, libraries, dens, bedrooms, sunrooms, recreation rooms, closets, hallways, laundry areas, or similar rooms or areas shall be protected by AFCIs.

The latest National Electrical Code requires both AFCI and GFCI protection only in kitchens and laundry rooms, but if you're already doing AFCI, why not do it all everywhere as it is clearly to be required at some point

Main downside is they are expensive. I've recently installed a new 24-slot subpanel and I'm using them everywhere required. At $50 a pop, that's a quick $1200.

Re: We need a lot more electricians

#117

Post by secabeen »

londons_explore wrote: post #20
londons_explore wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are a lot of laws and regulations about electrical installations. In many regions, doing it legally requires lots of courses and certificates. When you have invested all the time and money into getting said certificates, which is sometimes multiple years full time, you typically want to become a full time electrician to pay back the time+money investment. That means that 'I just do electrics on the side' is bec…

Obviously in most parts of the world, there is no electrical police who will raid your home and look for evidence of wiring done without the correct certifications. Therefore, lots of people DIY stuff illegally... If you choose this route, understand that: * The main cause of injury/death caused by electrics is fires. Fires are normally caused by improper fuses (a fuse/breaker should always be the lowest rating of an…

Wago blocks are wonderful, and I hope I'll never twist two wires together under a wire nut ever again.

Re: We need a lot more electricians

#118

Post by keltor »

frankus wrote: post #109

I'm curious if there is some productivity-improving tech for electricians waiting to be invented. The following will be super North-America-centric, but: Right now you have to fasten a box to the wall structure, cut the wire so that about 8" can make its way into the box, strip the outer insulation and insert it into the box, strip at least some of the individual conductors, and then splice (by twisting and using wir…

There have been attempts to use modular electrical systems, but consumers want choice and flexibility and governments at least in the US want those inspection $$$$s.

Re: We need a lot more electricians

#119

Post by bluGill »

newZWhoDis wrote: post #37
BitwiseFool wrote: post #11

Something to keep in mind is that most homes, if they haven't been constructed within the last 10 years, likely have some non-compliance with the current electrical code. For instance, I needed to install an exterior disconnect which wound up costing me more than a thousand dollars on top of the existing electrical work I needed done. The electrician also needed to replace my existing ground wires because they are su…

Required to sheath ground in green? What on earth for? That makes ground less effective since you want any incidental contact with ground to ground the object touching it.

I believe that either a bare wire or a green wire is allowed. However no other colors. That was the case ~6 years ago when I checked the NEC.

Re: We need a lot more electricians

#120

Post by symfoniq »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #3
PaulHoule wrote: post #2

We are thinking of switching some gas appliances to electric in our old farmhouse but we probably need to rework our electrical panel completely to add high amperage services for an induction range (my wife won't accept an ordinary electric range) and an electric water heater. Fortunately our son is in training as a handyman and that means we can get him working on projects of all kinds around the farm. Of all the tr…

If you need to upgrade your service entrance, if it's within your means, go to 400A to future proof (EVs, HVAC and hot water heat pumps, induction stove, and other large loads all add up, along with colocated generation of some sort). Depending on your authority having jurisdiction (AHJ) and utility, they may require a licensed electrician to replace the raceway or similar entrance to the meter. 200A is satisfactory…

Good advice. I just did the 400 amp upgrade. Our 3200 sq ft house was still on 150 amp service from the 1980s, and going to 200 amps just didn’t seem to add much capacity relative to the cost. Was about $12K to go to 400 amps with two 200 amp panels.
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